Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,211
# 21
08-18-2013, 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topset View Post
Aux2Batt has plenty of downsides, and including these 2 new ones, it's hardly "the build to rule them all"
How often is your Aux actually low though?

Everybody has access to either MACO Shields or Leech now. There are X->A Cores. Engineers can grab the Manifold Trait. There's still Aux batts if you need to boost your heals.

There have been both +Damage/+Survival added since S7, so you're killing faster - taking less damage - healing smaller but faster...etc, etc, etc.

In talking about the Nukara T4...that caps at +25 Weapon Training, Energy Weapons, and Projectile Weapons at 125 Aux. That's +50 Skill max for a particular type of damage, which means a ((Base (Std/Mk 0) * ((50 * 0.5) / 100) * Weapon Power (if applicable)) boost to damage before buffs. So @125, that's +62.5 DPV for a Beam Array before Tac Buffs. It's 0.2 Skill per Aux. The loss is unlikely to be noticed compared to being able to use abilities faster...

The same goes for the AMP cores - so you may or may not lose out on the +3.3% from Aux (more often than not, my Aux is actually boosted by the second AtB. Drops for a short period on the first AtB and is boosted on the second), but again - you've got the faster abilities that are going to more than make up for that potential 3.3% loss.

It's like people are still stuck on how AtB was a year ago, rather than how it is in today's form of the game.

C'mon, it's always been posted about - it's always been posted about with the some caveats. Yes, it's been posted about more now - because those caveats no longer apply...

Also have to keep in mind, just because a boat's got at least 2x Lt Eng - that doesn't mean that it should be an AtB boat. You can still do an AtB boat that's going to have various problems. Personally, I couldn't imagine running a JHEC without AtB - it was both a boost to damage and survival. And yeah, if you're running a boat where you're focused on using Sci abilities where you want that 125/130 Aux all the time - no, you're not going to want to AtB.

But yeah, it's like folks are stuck on how AtB was a year ago rather than how it is now.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,563
# 22
08-18-2013, 03:34 PM
I don't think Aux2Batt will be going anywhere. Among the new Elachi survivor doffs are A2B technicians, who have flooded the market and dropped the price of all A2B techs in general (note the same has occured with DCEs and TT Conn Officers). The build is now cheaper than ever to make, anyone would think it was being passively encouraged by Cryptic, to get Cruisers back into the game.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,211
# 23
08-18-2013, 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeybacon90 View Post
The build is now cheaper than ever to make, anyone would think it was being passively encouraged by Cryptic, to get Cruisers back into the game.
No tinfoil hat needed on that one - I'd say they've gone beyond passive trying to boost AtB for Cruisers. They've been somewhat open about their dislike of Escorts (DHCs too) and acknowledged they can't touch any of that because of the uproar that occurs even when folks mistakenly think they're going to touch them. So what do they do instead? Yep...

The problem, imho, is that it's just more of the yo-yo, pendulum, etc, etc, etc stuff. Rather than trying to balance things, they just keep switching what's best. Cruisers Online, Escorts Online, Cruisers Online, Escorts Online, Cruisers Online...how about just Star Trek Online instead, eh?

edit: Heck, lol...one could say they added an AtB Trait with Inspiration.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba

Last edited by virusdancer; 08-18-2013 at 04:35 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 193
# 24
08-18-2013, 04:27 PM
with my experience using aux2batt, the ship its used on is critical.

aux2batt can be used on any ship with a minimum 2x lt eng stations, but this drastically reduces the number of abilities used for self healing, both with hull and shields.

escorts using aux2batt are essentially glass cannons with no way to effectively take sustained damage. they can alpha pop 1, maybe 2 ships then they are toast and out of the fight for 15 seconds.

Even in destroyers, aux2batt and self healing is hard to maintain with balance. unless you can find a ship that has only commander tactical, and the rest sci and eng, u are always at risk of being caught by a control ship or battle cloaked enemies.

cruisers with high hull, heal, and shield modifiers are the ones who benefit most from aux2batt, which is the intention of using it + technicians...to balance the field of battle.

The ONLY instance I can see aux2batt being OP is when being used in either veteran ships(romulan and klingon especially), tal shiar destroyer, JHEC, or JHDC.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 35
# 25
08-18-2013, 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
if you're running a boat where you're focused on using Sci abilities where you want that 125/130 Aux all the time - no, you're not going to want to AtB.
As mostly running sci ships i still have to disagre on that, AtB can work on sci ship, as most sci ability have very long cd and not many of them uses aux dynamically, so once i fired the skill(s) i have 125/130 aux not doing anything for a min or so, for that 10-15 sec while AtB lasts and aux recovers i can reduce cd on sci abilities and performance is enhanced by a lot when 125/130 aux used with atb, works nicely on my Kar'Fi drain build for example, and theres a lot alternative for sci skill combos that works fine with low aux, like viralmatrix, or repulsors as their dmg isnt affected by aux only the push strength that can give more controll over this paticular skill and with lesser push the enemies recive more dmg bc they not pushed out of range so fast, all in all AtB can work on ANY ship that have at least 1 lt. eng(/uni), all u have to decide is how often u want higher aux levels, idk why should AtB run with max uptime on non-cruisers and alike if your aim is to reduce lond cd of skills, the AtB build found on cruisers is simply the pinacle of the use of this skill
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,211
# 26
08-18-2013, 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexlancos View Post
As mostly running sci ships i still have to disagre on that, AtB can work on sci ship, as most sci ability have very long cd and not many of them uses aux dynamically, so once i fired the skill(s) i have 125/130 aux not doing anything for a min or so, for that 10-15 sec while AtB lasts and aux recovers i can reduce cd on sci abilities and performance is enhanced by a lot when 125/130 aux used with atb, works nicely on my Kar'Fi drain build for example, and theres a lot alternative for sci skill combos that works fine with low aux, like viralmatrix, or repulsors as their dmg isnt affected by aux only the push strength that can give more controll over this paticular skill and with lesser push the enemies recive more dmg bc they not pushed out of range so fast, all in all AtB can work on ANY ship that have at least 1 lt. eng(/uni), all u have to decide is how often u want higher aux levels, idk why should AtB run with max uptime on non-cruisers and alike if your aim is to reduce lond cd of skills, the AtB build found on cruisers is simply the pinacle of the use of this skill
Kar'Fi is a Cmdr/En...with my statement, I was thinking Cmdr/LCdr or more with a focus on Aux based abilities - you're not going to be looking at as long a CD because you're running the AtB. Those builds tend to favor the [SciCdr] Deflectors, the Photonic stuff Mimey's talking about, etc, etc, etc. You can definitely do a Sci build where the Aux won't matter. It's why I said what I did - about wanting that 125/130 that you wouldn't...wasn't a case of saying that Sci couldn't AtB.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Ensign
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 27
# 27
08-18-2013, 06:27 PM
Sci heavy builds that don't work with A2B:

Drain Builds
Polaron/Tetryon procs, ES, Leech, Aceton Assim - all dependent on current aux.

Feedback Pulse Builds
With this last patch and the double stealth nerf that FBP got; for those who don't know FBP's reflect is no longer determined by when the buff is applied but aux level at each individual hit and it also gains nothing from tact consoles anymore.

That it? Healing builds as well, I've never run one myself to comment.

A2B works really well for sci damage ships (GW + energy damage). I've run a bunch of aux heavy A2B builds, you use a 5 sec cooldown period after each A2B waiting for your aux to climb back above 125 aux. Activate aux dependent abilities in this period and have 125 power to weapons/shields/engines during A2B's duration. Its like running Photonic Officer and Energy Siphon but with 100% up time to both.

Why is A2B OP? Easy it only has a 10 sec shared cooldown which is the duration of the buff.... That is stupid. It should be at least 20 secs IMO as this would balance it out against the other build engines like ES, PO, EPtX etc.

Its popular because its stupidly powerful as a build engine. Almost ANY build. Do you have other options that are not common? Yes, engi battery builds come to mind straight away but if we keep talking science we are talking ES and PO and they fail utterly to get even close to A2B simply because of PO's shared cooldown of 2 mins.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,390
# 28
08-18-2013, 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
How often is your Aux actually low though?
Pretty much all of the time, and completely unreliable for using any Aux based powers.

Dropping aux will see you lose cloak, so you can't actually use Plas leech or MACO shield with a cloaking build, or with any other boosts that temporarily boost aux power without getting decloaked from time to time.


For the thread

Aux to batts limitations:
> Eats 3 DOFF slots
> Makes most of your aux based powers very weak, most of the time (aux to batts goes off every 10s if you keybind it, but you only get the power boost every other cycle or if you manually wait a few extra seconds to fire it.)
> You need enough Eng slots in the right combination (generally 5 at least, 6 is better with at least Ltc Eng) and enough Tac slots, but not too many Tac slots (generally 4 or 5) to make it valuable to the build.
> Some items/powers are linked to aux that add damage or other benefits, like AMD or Nukara T4. This is a trend that is likely to continue.


Generally speaking Aux to batts is mostly useful for offense focused cruiser builds, or the handful of hybrid destroyer types that mimic them.

I.e. ships that are anywhere from under-par to mediocre or decent, can run A2B giving them better performance.

Most pure escorts have no reason to run this, and very often can't without making major sacrifices - running this in a Sci ship is pretty much missing the point.


The reason it seems to have "exploded" these days is because the general population finally caught on that this is a way they could play a cruiser and not have it be completely awful for most of the game's content.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,550
# 29
08-18-2013, 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
How often is your Aux actually low though?
Plenty enough. A2B flatlines your aux, always, regardless of how high it was. So, often you'll find yourself without, say, Hazard Emitters; or Transfer Shield Strength; or Polarize Hull -- all abilities very much needed on a cruiser as well.

Quote:
In talking about the Nukara T4...that caps at +25 Weapon Training, Energy Weapons, and Projectile Weapons at 125 Aux. That's +50 Skill max for a particular type of damage, which means a ((Base (Std/Mk 0) * ((50 * 0.5) / 100) * Weapon Power (if applicable)) boost to damage before buffs. So @125, that's +62.5 DPV for a Beam Array before Tac Buffs. It's 0.2 Skill per Aux. The loss is unlikely to be noticed compared to being able to use abilities faster...
Nope, can't dazzle me with numbers, this time. ;P In fact, I find your whole line of reasoning rather flawed. You're strangely tilting at the A2B windmill, whereas your same rationale could be used, integrally, to nerf Sci powers, because, OMG, they have soo much aux power now!

Look at your own words:

Quote:
Everybody has access to either MACO Shields or Leech now. There are X->A Cores. Engineers can grab the Manifold Trait. There's still Aux batts if you need to boost your heals.
That's exactly it: EVERYBODY has access to the new goodies, which makes stomping on A2B rather peculiar. You're lifting out A2B, are holding it against the light, and are building a case out of 'demonstrating' A2B benefits from the new stuff. Well, yeah; so does everything else.

Quote:
C'mon, it's always been posted about - it's always been posted about with the some caveats. Yes, it's been posted about more now - because those caveats no longer apply...
You keep saying that. Are you perhaps privy to some super-duper secret I haven't heard of yet? Far as I know, it still takes 3x purple Technicians to make A2B work. Nothing has changed in that regard; except that EVERYBODY benefits from the extra rep boons.

Quote:
But yeah, it's like folks are stuck on how AtB was a year ago rather than how it is now.
A2B is exactly the same as it was a year ago. The game itself, however, has overall been changed to make things easier for people: that has *nothing* to do with A2B specifically. You may not like this new wind that's blowing. In fact, I don't either. In think, in many ways, Cryptic is sabotaging their own game, introducing more and more outlandish stuff (like those stackable 2.0% CrtH boffs I mentioned), just so people will buy moar. Or just so peeps are guaranteed to do the rep system du-jour. Whatever. Thing of it is, though: none of this has anything to do with A2B (save that it's only one of many abilities that benefits from having more power, more often).

Last edited by meimeitoo; 08-18-2013 at 10:25 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 195
# 30
08-18-2013, 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlydirking View Post
Sci heavy builds that don't work with A2B:

...

Feedback Pulse Builds
With this last patch and the double stealth nerf that FBP got; for those who don't know FBP's reflect is no longer determined by when the buff is applied but aux level at each individual hit and it also gains nothing from tact consoles anymore.
...
News to me, but not bad news for a ship with consistently high Aux and few Tac consoles! *wrings hands like a mad Sci*
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