Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,225
# 31
08-19-2013, 12:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
Plenty enough. A2B flatlines your aux, always, regardless of how high it was. So, often you'll find yourself without, say, Hazard Emitters; or Transfer Shield Strength; or Polarize Hull -- all abilities very much needed on a cruiser as well.
Overcharged Warp Core Mk XI [EPS][W->A][SSS]
Console - Universal - Assimilated Module [+5 Weapon Power]
Console - Zero-Point Energy Conduit [+1.8 All Power Subsystems]
Console - Universal - Nukara Particle Converter [+5 Shield Power]
Plasmonic Leech [+2.1 All Power Subsystems Per Activation]
EPS Manifold Efficiency, Efficient Captain, Warp Theorist.
6 Batteries (84), 6 Warp Core Efficiency (114), 6 Warp Core Potential (94), 9 Electro-Plasma Systems (125), 6 Engine Performance (84), 6 Shield Performance (84), 6 Weapon Performance (84)...9 Flow Capacitors (109), 9 Power Insulators (154).
EPtS1 [+24.4 Shield Power], EPtW1 [+24.4 Weapon Power]
No WCE +Power DOFF.

Weapon: 125/100
Shield: 88/60
Engine: 50/25
Aux: 54/15

If I'm just sitting out in the middle of nowhere without a target for Leech...

HE2 @54: +11182.3/15s Hull Heal & +18.5 DRR (takes it to +35.3%)
PH1 @54: +38.4 DRR (takes it to 41.9%)
ST1 @54: 2018.2 Shield Heal/Facing (no, I don't TSS)

HE2 @4: +5874.4/15s Hull Heal & +9.7 DRR (+31.6%)
PH1 @4: +20.1 DRR (takes it to 35.9%)
ST1 @4: 2018.2 Shield Heal/Facing

Well crap, right? Sure, there's not much change in the DRR because of how it works, but look at that loss of heal with the HE2...right?

HE has a 45s inclusive CD (the 15s it is active is included in the recharge). So that's 15s of HoT and 30s of no HoT. So uh, yeah - let's AtB that HE, eh? What's that? I'm using HE at least twice is often. Well, 2 * 5874.4 = 11748.8 which is larger than 11182.3. I've actually healed more during that period using AtB than not using it. Also, note that it's at least twice. The reduction actually falls just short of using it three times in that period. Over the duration of combat, an AtB'd HE is going to heal far more than a non-AtB'd HE.

Hrmmm, there's something else that's being forgotten about what HE does - eh? Oh yeah, that's right. The cleanse of the Plasma DoT. That Plasma burn is going to do more damage than the HE is going to heal. Clearing that at near three times the rate is...pretty nifty, eh? Add in a Keel'el, and yeah...anyway.

My Aux hasn't flatlined since LoR. Oh, it did previously. Usually had to worry about having an Aux Batt handy or having EPtA1 instead of some other EPtX ability. It's one of the reasons that I never liked AtB in the past. I never liked risking that 0 Aux. It's one thing to use that HE at 4-5 Aux, it's another not to be able to use it at all. That's rough.

It used to be drop to 5 on the first, no drop on the second (actually boosted itself), possible drop on the third, etc, etc, etc until you'd get the crash. That it boosts itself is still there but the crash is gone...as if they fixed one bug, but not the other.

That 0 Aux in the past is what led my preferring DCE'd EPtX in the past.

2-4s out of every pair of cycles, my Aux is at that 4-5 Aux. The rest of the time it's at normal and most of the time it's actually boosted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
Nope, can't dazzle me with numbers, this time. ;P In fact, I find your whole line of reasoning rather flawed. You're strangely tilting at the A2B windmill, whereas your same rationale could be used, integrally, to nerf Sci powers, because, OMG, they have soo much aux power now!
That is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I have read on the forums.

Ignoring reality doesn't change anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
Look at your own words:

That's exactly it: EVERYBODY has access to the new goodies, which makes stomping on A2B rather peculiar. You're lifting out A2B, are holding it against the light, and are building a case out of 'demonstrating' A2B benefits from the new stuff. Well, yeah; so does everything else.
I should have waited before my last statement.

Fantasy doesn't change reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
You keep saying that. Are you perhaps privy to some super-duper secret I haven't heard of yet? Far as I know, it still takes 3x purple Technicians to make A2B work. Nothing has changed in that regard; except that EVERYBODY benefits from the extra rep boons.
At this point, I'm not even sure that you're reading. It's almost as if you're in some form of blind hysterics. No offense, I'm just confused by what you're saying here.

Here's what I said:

There were caveats with using AtB previously. Those caveats no longer apply.

Here's what you said:

Everybody benefits from the extra rep boons.

Let's lay it out like this:

AtB Goodies - Caveats + Boons
No AtB + Boons

It would appear that you're suggesting that the Boons themselves, are equal to running AtB. There's no reason to run AtB and heck, running AtB's probably worse...cause everybody's got the boons! Which would be a fine (silly) argument if you were arguing that folks shouldn't use AtB rather than so blindly defending it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
A2B is exactly the same as it was a year ago. The game itself, however, has overall been changed to make things easier for people: that has *nothing* to do with A2B specifically. You may not like this new wind that's blowing. In fact, I don't either. In think, in many ways, Cryptic is sabotaging their own game, introducing more and more outlandish stuff (like those stackable 2.0% CrtH boffs I mentioned), just so people will buy moar. Or just so peeps are guaranteed to do the rep system du-jour. Whatever. Thing of it is, though: none of this has anything to do with A2B (save that it's only one of many abilities that benefits from having more power, more often).
AtB doesn't exist in a vacuum. As such, of course it has something to do with AtB. And as noted in the other thread, Cryptic appears to be pushing AtB with their changes. Heck, they even just added an AtB trait for captains.

Like I said there, it's as if their passive aggressive hate for all the Tac/Escort folks has taken form with AtB Cruisers.

Which is the problem for me. Like I said there, it's the damn pendulum thing that Cryptic does. Why do we have to keep bouncing back and forth between Cruisers Online, Escorts Online, Cruisers Online, Escorts Online...back and forth...back and forth. Why can't we just have even the remotest iota of some form of balanced gameplay with a Star Trek Online instead?

I started off this post with the power related aspects of my AtB build on a JHEC. If there's something there that I'm doing that you're not doing, that's causing me not to 0 Aux while you still experience it...then obviously that is the problem. Not a problem with what you're doing - but a problem with there being no flatline with AtB. Cause although you've done all you could to ignore what I've said, if you'd paid attention - you'd have seen that the issue I've pointed out is how everything else in the game has affected it...and that's where the issue is - not AtB itself.

Perhaps a dev can answer whether 0 Aux is meant to happen or if one is meant to be able to avoid it. If it is meant to happen and it is not happening, well then that needs to be addressed. If one is meant to be able to avoid it...well, then...I wish they'd knock off the pendulum crap.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,327
# 32
08-19-2013, 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctcwolf View Post
The ONLY instance I can see aux2batt being OP is when being used in either veteran ships(romulan and klingon especially), tal shiar destroyer, JHEC, or JHDC.
Considering that the BUG can speed tank like a demon and use lots of armor consoles and AUX2Bat then it may well be a majorly OP abuser of this. Especially if it is flown by an Engineer.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,740
# 33
08-19-2013, 01:18 AM
Contrary to what some people here are saying, you can do all sorts of Aux heavy things on A2B, like FBP, TSS, HE, Siphon. You just need to time your pops well and be quite liberal with aux batteries.
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U.S.S. Indefatigable
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,367
# 34
08-19-2013, 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hasukurobi View Post
Considering that the BUG can speed tank like a demon and use lots of armor consoles and AUX2Bat then it may well be a majorly OP abuser of this. Especially if it is flown by an Engineer.
Bug...as in, the Bug, the JHAS?

Because A2Bing a bug, unless you REALLY REALLY REEEAAAAALLLLYYYY know what you are doing, is a very bad idea. (and even then, I think I've heard of maybe one or possibly two people who can make this work effectively)

Cmdr tac, Lt. cmdr tac, ensign engy, 2 lt universals.

Yes, you can A2B it, but it isn't a good idea. Because then you lose ALL sci skills, have little aux a good portion of the time, three ensign engineers to deal with, and SEVEN tac slots to juggle.

Putting aside everything, that's just a lot of work to be micromanaging it more than most builds would be. The captain class don't really factor into it honestly, using a bug with an A2B build is pretty much not a wise choice in many many regards.

I'm not saying it can't work, I'm just saying that it isn't the best choice.

Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,225
# 35
08-19-2013, 01:32 AM
So paying more attention to what's happening in an actual combat environment (rather than the sitting off to the side mentioned above), I've seen what's happening.

With the various changes in combination with Leech (he always had it, but didn't have the new stuff) - the following occurs:

That drop to 4-5 doesn't happen. It's a drop to 13-15.
The 0 Aux still occurs...but not as 0 Aux...it's at 5 Aux.
The majority of time is spent at 81 Aux (base 54).

If that 13-15 was 4-5 and if the 5 was 0...then yeah, it would be a different story. AtB would still have that caveat to it.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,720
# 36
08-19-2013, 01:49 AM
"Nope, can't dazzle me with numbers, this time. ;P In fact, I find your whole line of reasoning rather flawed. You're strangely tilting at the A2B windmill, whereas your same rationale could be used, integrally, to nerf Sci powers, because, OMG, they have soo much aux power now!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
That is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I have read on the forums.

Ignoring reality doesn't change anything.
Ridiculing something does not change reality, either. Other than the tone getting more grim, you have shown me *nothing* to demonstrate that A2B benefits from aux more than anything else which uses aux, under the new and improved overall power levels we've been getting. In fact, A2B never needed full aux to be super-effective to begin with. My Fleet Excelsior does absolutely fine with just ca. 60% starter-aux -- making all of this moot from the get-go.

On a personal level, I'm a bit surprised, really. Normally you're found on the side of reason. But in this thread you seem to have departed from that, and have strangely bitten into A2B as an apparent means to unleash some misgivings about the overall new and improved power levels that can be gotten now; whereas it seems glaringly apparent to others, that A2B is not singularly benefiting from higher aux levels beyond anything else using aux, like science abilities.

The simple truth remains, however fervently mocked, that everyone, from Tact, to Science, to Engineer, benefits greatly from better overall power levels. Like i said, if you don't like that, fine; but don't take it out on A2B.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,225
# 37
08-19-2013, 02:03 AM
edit: Yeah, I can't keep talking about A while you talk about B ignoring that I'm talking about A...
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin

Last edited by virusdancer; 08-19-2013 at 03:59 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 38
08-19-2013, 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Yeah, I can't keep talking about...

Frankly I'm amused that anybody is talking about anything. I addressed my post to Cryptic, and I asked a question that only Cryptic can answer.

As far as I am concerned, there are zero replies to this thread.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,225
# 39
08-19-2013, 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
Frankly I'm amused that anybody is talking about anything. I addressed my post to Cryptic, and I asked a question that only Cryptic can answer.

As far as I am concerned, there are zero replies to this thread.
It's not sto-forum.momaw.com...

If you wish to have private correspondence with Cryptic - then send somebody there a PM, fire off an email, type out a letter and mail it, give them a call and ask the receptionist to pass your question along.

edit: Removed Twitter and Facebook, since both could result in commentary...
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin

Last edited by virusdancer; 08-19-2013 at 08:24 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 40
08-19-2013, 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
send somebody there a PM, fire off an email
Devs don't accept PMs or publish their email addresses. Can you imagine how insane that would get?

Paper is obsolete. And calling their office in the middle of a workday, even if I could bluff my way past whoever answers phones, potentially interrupting whatever they are doing.... No.

The forum is the most practical way to try and get them short of Podcast UGC doing another "Ask us anything" interview with a dev. And I can't stop anybody else from commenting. I'm not angry, as I said, I am amused, since everything that people have said is literally irrelevant to the question I asked. It's one giant off-topic threadjacking.
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