Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 41
08-19-2013, 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeybacon90 View Post
Contrary to what some people here are saying, you can do all sorts of Aux heavy things on A2B, like FBP, TSS, HE, Siphon. You just need to time your pops well and be quite liberal with aux batteries.
You can't pop a battery all of the time, for all of those abilities, every time you need them.

You are also looking at, maybe, a Lt Sci slot with 2 Sci abilities.

Otherwise, you are pushing into the realm of "missing the point" on an aux to batts build.

There are maybe 1 or 2 super niche Sci builds that could run with minimal Aux that you might want to try with this, but on the whole proper healers and controllers get very little use out of Aux to batts, which goes the same for most Escorts that have standard Escort layouts.

Again, it's a small selection of hybrids (like several destroyers) and assault focused cruisers that really make use of Aux to batts.

That's why I'm in the pro-Aux to batts camp.

Without Aux to batts, almost an entire class of ships like this would turn back into the pumpkins they used to be overnight.

Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,214
# 42
08-19-2013, 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
It's one giant off-topic threadjacking.
If people were sharing recipes for oatmeal raisin cookies, talking about the cutest thing their kitten did this morning, complaining about the person in the office next to them at work, or wondering what's going to happen next season on The Killing...sure, would be a giant off-topic threadjacking.

Folks are discussing AtB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
It can't have escaped notice over in the dungeons of Cryptic that the so-called "aux2batt build" has exploded in popularity. Due to the fact that multiple technicians can be stacked up and effectively reduce all cooldowns to their global minimum, especially abilities that have special duty officers which amplify their effects.
AtB has worked like that from the start, no? From when DOFFs were introduced before the F2P conversion, eh? Considering that's how they were implemented and the amount of time that has passed since their implementation...not sure that question need be asked at this point.

Course, if one questions whether the explosion in popularity is instead due to changes that came to LoR in other areas of the game that in turn had an affect on AtB and whether that was intended...well, one might have a new and interesting question.

No, I do not work at Cryptic...but you're asking a question that's over 20 months old, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
What I am wondering is: Is this behavior intended? Should we accept, plan, and rely on aux2batt and technicians working this way for the foreseeable future, and adopt it as the new yardstick by which all ship designs are measured?
Been that way for over 20 months, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
Personally I have not grown accustomed to it because I have seen it as an exploitive and unintended mechanic. But if this build is known and blessed by Cryptic then I will reevaluate...
Then folks have been exploiting an unintended mechanic that was apparently introduced over 20 months ago to do just what it does...

...so I wouldn't be surprised if there's no dev response on that particular question.


Willard the Rat & Crew

This isn't your father's Starfleet...welcome to Star Trek Online.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 43
08-19-2013, 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
Frankly I'm amused that anybody is talking about anything. I addressed my post to Cryptic, and I asked a question that only Cryptic can answer.

As far as I am concerned, there are zero replies to this thread.

It doesn't matter what you think, or what your opinion is.

1) You posted in an open forum, expect comments.

2) Requesting or Demanding a Dev or Dev team to reply to you is basically a sure-fire way to guarantee that they absolutely do not reply to you.

#2 is because it sets a bad precedent of developers caving into player demands, if they answer your demand they must then answer every demand or they will be criticized for favoritism, etc.

Welcome to posting on an online message forum, I've given you a tip from "How to post 101".



If the forums aren't to your liking, you might try Twitter, I hear the devs often use that.

Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,061
# 44
08-19-2013, 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
Devs don't accept PMs or publish their email addresses. Can you imagine how insane that would get?
That's incorrect. I have corresponded with a Dev with PM. I wrote him, didn't ask for an answer - merely providing my feedback - and he wrote back with his comments and insights.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,839
# 45
08-19-2013, 10:58 AM
Since when has ST been influenced by Aux?
Quote:
Originally Posted by staq16 View Post
The Federation may have all the superficial attention - but the game engine has a Klingon heart that lives only for battle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smiecho View Post
I'm seroiusly thinking about leaving this game for a while.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,550
# 46
08-19-2013, 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Since when has ST been influenced by Aux?
It hasn't, far as I know. Only Shield Emitters.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,214
# 47
08-19-2013, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Since when has ST been influenced by Aux?
It isn't affected by Aux...

edit: Doh, see you already got a reply on that.


Willard the Rat & Crew

This isn't your father's Starfleet...welcome to Star Trek Online.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 48
08-19-2013, 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
HE has a 45s inclusive CD (the 15s it is active is included in the recharge). So that's 15s of HoT and 30s of no HoT. So uh, yeah - let's AtB that HE, eh? What's that? I'm using HE at least twice is often. Well, 2 * 5874.4 = 11748.8 which is larger than 11182.3. I've actually healed more during that period using AtB than not using it. Also, note that it's at least twice. The reduction actually falls just short of using it three times in that period. Over the duration of combat, an AtB'd HE is going to heal far more than a non-AtB'd HE.
That's completely inaccurate. HE has a 30 second minimum cooldown, and it is completely impossible for anything to ever reduce it below that. So instead of using it every 45 seconds, you're using it every 30 seconds, so it's 5874.4*(45/30)=8,811.6 healed over that 45 second period, which is significantly less than what you got without using A2B (78.8% of it, to be exact).

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
My Aux hasn't flatlined since LoR. Oh, it did previously. Usually had to worry about having an Aux Batt handy or having EPtA1 instead of some other EPtX ability. It's one of the reasons that I never liked AtB in the past. I never liked risking that 0 Aux. It's one thing to use that HE at 4-5 Aux, it's another not to be able to use it at all. That's rough.

It used to be drop to 5 on the first, no drop on the second (actually boosted itself), possible drop on the third, etc, etc, etc until you'd get the crash. That it boosts itself is still there but the crash is gone...as if they fixed one bug, but not the other.

That 0 Aux in the past is what led my preferring DCE'd EPtX in the past.

2-4s out of every pair of cycles, my Aux is at that 4-5 Aux. The rest of the time it's at normal and most of the time it's actually boosted.
You're misunderstanding the way A2B takes Aux power. What it does is, at the time of activation, it takes everything but the last 5 points of your Aux power, and holds all of that until the end of its 10 second length (power bonus is calculated from all the available Aux at the time of activation). Anything that happens to your Aux after that will make a change from that 5 power you had left. So if you lose a stack of Plasmonic Leech, your Aux power drops to 2.9, if you gain a stack it goes up to 7.1, if you activated A2B just coming off of another copy it will recover at its normal power recovery rate, etc. This is why I tend to avoid temporary Aux power boosts when I'm using A2B, because that's the way to actually get your Aux kicked offline. (Of course, the real glory days of A2B were back when it didn't take the power from EPtA, which let you have decent Aux power all the time, so all you were actually sacrificing was EPtW.) Now, I have heard that, if your power recovery is slow enough and your power setting is high enough, it's possible to keep your Aux continuously recovering after the first activation, so you can maintain a decent level most of the time that way, but it does mean you're losing out on some power for other systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
AtB doesn't exist in a vacuum. As such, of course it has something to do with AtB. And as noted in the other thread, Cryptic appears to be pushing AtB with their changes. Heck, they even just added an AtB trait for captains.
The point is that the recent changes boost all of the other options as well as A2B. "A rising tide lifts all boats," as they say, so every build retains its advantages (and really its disadvantages as well) while getting an extra boost from the changes. Actually, I'd argue that A2B has gotten less boost from many of the changes, temporary power boosts like the new Eng trait and the wider availability of Leech are dangerous with A2B, and the Nukara T4 does very little with no reliable Aux power.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,214
# 49
08-20-2013, 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
You're misunderstanding the way A2B takes Aux power.
I'm going to have to disagree on that...since you basically repeated what I said - ignoring what I said about there being an issue where it is no longer working that way on all builds.

Two Eng (one Fed/one KDF)...I went ahead and bought the same Core for the Fed that the KDF guy has. The Fed has MACO shields and the KDF has Leech.

The Fed still drops to 4-5 and has 0 Aux moments. The KDF does not drop to 5 (yes, it flickers for the briefest of moments to 5 before hitting that 13-14 that I mentioned. The KDF does not have 0 Aux moments.

Previously (as I previously noted), even the KDF guy (had Leech then too) would drop to 5 and have 0 Aux moments.

That's no longer the case...and...thus, that's the issue that I've raised. It's possible to get around the "flatline" downside of AtB and thus the AtB is not balanced in that case. It's not a case of asking for any additional changes to AtB, other than for it to work as it did - with that downside of the min Aux and 0 Aux. I don't see the issue with asking for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
so every build retains its advantages (and really its disadvantages as well)
Which is not the case if the disadvantage of the 4-5/0 Aux is not there...it hasn't been retained.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
That's completely inaccurate.
Yep, the uptime calculation was off - trying to do too many things at once and summarizing caused wicked issues there.

Through 45s: ~180% uptime
Through 90s: ~150% uptime (overall)
Through 135s: ~144% uptime (overall)
Through 180s: ~150% uptime (overall)

Which is part of it...another part is that the guy I was looking at doesn't 4-5 Aux, he 13-14 Aux...so it's not as low. A further part is that while the first AtB drains, the second AtB boosts - of course, it's only boosting 3-5s of the HE (depending on when you're hitting it in regard to CDs/TCDs).

Like I've said before, I've no problem admitting where I've made a mistake - and yep, made a major mistake with the uptime calculation there.

As for the actual healing - hrmm, I'm trying to find something that would be good for comparing the AtB HE vs. non-AtB HE...the JHEC w/o AtB is squishy as Hell...
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 486
# 50
08-20-2013, 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
It can't have escaped notice over in the dungeons of Cryptic that the so-called "aux2batt build" has exploded in popularity. Due to the fact that multiple technicians can be stacked up and effectively reduce all cooldowns to their global minimum, especially abilities that have special duty officers which amplify their effects.

What I am wondering is: Is this behavior intended? Should we accept, plan, and rely on aux2batt and technicians working this way for the foreseeable future, and adopt it as the new yardstick by which all ship designs are measured?

Personally I have not grown accustomed to it because I have seen it as an exploitive and unintended mechanic. But if this build is known and blessed by Cryptic then I will reevaluate...

There is nothing I have said that either invites or requires comment by anybody except Cryptic.
If you dig as deep as i did with numberous cloak and non cloak builds, i will tell you there re just as much cons as pros for aux2bat builds.
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