Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,545
# 1 Single Heavy cannons (In PvP)
08-17-2013, 10:22 PM
So, with the new lobi set offering a 'single heavy cannon' as part of it, do you all think that, just pretending for a second, single heavy cannons in general would be a good thing?

Now, not with the Elachi proc or anything, I'm just talking, SHCs of the normal energy types (eventually adding in stuff like Fleet weapons, mixed proc weapons, and yes, even the Elachi ones), which would probably be quite useful on a great many cruisers who cannot normally run DHCs.

Or would they lack the punch needed still?

Personally, I wouldn't mind having my Fleet Excelsior gain a bit more teeth. Cannons have better power cycles compared to beams, so you wouldn't be keeping as low of power (and besides, everyone has buckets of power anyways). I'd still probably keep a DBB on the front for BO shots, but SHCs might be a nice to have some more hurt on something.

Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 867
# 2
08-17-2013, 10:29 PM
The only reason it would be useful is because dual cannons have been broken from the beginning and never fixed.

Even if you maintain your target in your firing arc, DHC seem to out-damage dual cannons. Even if they did equal damage, due to the "burst" nature of DHC, there would be no reason to use regular dual cannons.

Cryptic should have long-ago fixed it so that dual cannons got a DPS boost and gave you a different gameplay experience (higher damage than DHC if you could keep the target in your firing arc the entire exchange).

Just another broken balance issue.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,770
# 3
08-17-2013, 10:33 PM
oh god yes. i have wanted SHC for years. more front loaded damage, combined with the fireing arc they have for high on target uptime, would make them a great beam array alternative. espessually for those concerned about energy drain. though 12 energy draining with that elatchi cannon, that seems a bit much considering how much less damage it causes then a DHC. how about 11 drain?

there are already plasma single heavy cannons on some high end borg npcs. its time to makes these weapons playable
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,545
# 4
08-18-2013, 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicalspock View Post
The only reason it would be useful is because dual cannons have been broken from the beginning and never fixed.

Even if you maintain your target in your firing arc, DHC seem to out-damage dual cannons. Even if they did equal damage, due to the "burst" nature of DHC, there would be no reason to use regular dual cannons.

Cryptic should have long-ago fixed it so that dual cannons got a DPS boost and gave you a different gameplay experience (higher damage than DHC if you could keep the target in your firing arc the entire exchange).

Just another broken balance issue.
Well...

DCs are not really broken (unless there is something I don't know about). DCs and DHCs technically have the same level of DPS. DCs fire weaker, but more shots, while DHCs fire harder hitting, but fewer shots. So in that regard they are 'equal'.

DHCs are still more popular because of the higher damage, which is more necessary in PvP, as they have that 'burst' damage nature that is generally more needed in a PvP match and such.

DCs are useful in regards to anything that has a 'per pulse' basis going for it. Like DEM for example, that is based on every single hit you let out, so if you have a CRF volley with 3 or 4 DCs firing at once, that is gonna be a TON of DEM hits.

They don't need a damage boost, because then everyone would simply use DCs and never go back to DHCs, because DCs would be seen as having the higher 'effective' damage, which is really what matters. Raw numbers don't mean much, it's the actual effective damage that sticks which does. Not to mention, it is a non-issue anymore to keep your cannons on a target, unless you are flying a ship that can use cannons and is REEEEAAAALLLLYYYY slow (D'deridex, Bortasqu', Galaxy-X, etc), keeping cannons on a target is pretty easy anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
oh god yes. i have wanted SHC for years. more front loaded damage, combined with the fireing arc they have for high on target uptime, would make them a great beam array alternative. espessually for those concerned about energy drain. though 12 energy draining with that elatchi cannon, that seems a bit much considering how much less damage it causes then a DHC. how about 11 drain?

there are already plasma single heavy cannons on some high end borg npcs. its time to makes these weapons playable
Amen there. I think SHCs would be awesome. For pretty much what you just said there: 180 degree firing arc with excellent damage for something that isn't a DHC. Talk about some serious pressure fire, especially coming from a properly run tac-cruiser or similar ship.

As for the power thing, I think it taking 12 power is part of the balance on it. It is a unique weapon, so it doesn't have to follow the 'normal' rules for the sake of balancing it. In that case, it's the same power drain as a DHC.

Though yeah, I agree in that they should drain a bit more, but honestly, a few more power isn't gonna kill things too badly I think.

DEM 3 + CRF w/ SHCs + BO + EPTW 3 = lots of pain on the enemy.

If you REALLY wanted to troll someone: 'de-cloak' with MES if using a non-cloaking ship.

Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,181
# 5
08-18-2013, 01:26 AM
I would love Single Heavy Cannon to be added to the game for all weapon types.
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Posts: 522
# 6
08-18-2013, 01:26 AM
How about heavy beam arrays...
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Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,181
# 7
08-18-2013, 01:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magniacapra View Post
How about heavy beam arrays...
Their should also be Heavy Beam Array
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,152
# 8
08-18-2013, 01:43 AM
DC
4/3 Firing Cycle
87 Base Damage
-10 Power

DHC
2/3 Firing Cycle
174 Base Damage
-12 Power
+10% CrtD

SC
4/3 Firing Cycle
72 Base Damage (know everything says it's 67, but if you do the math - it's 72)
-10 Power

SHC - the Heavy Crescent Wave Cannon
2/3 Firing Cycle
144 Base Damage*
-12 Power
+60% CrtD**

*Even though the item is listed as Rare without any Mark, you can do the math to see that it's actually a VR Mk XII version of a SC following similar rules to the DC->DHC.

**Is it a case that they gave it [CrtD]x3 or does the SHC have +20% innate CrtD and they gave it [CrtD]x2? Given that it's a VR Mk XII item, I'm leaning toward they gave it [CrtD]x3 - meaning the SHCs have no inherent +CrtD like the DHCs do.

Since it was also mentioned...how about other Heavies, eh?

Beam Array
4/5 Firing Cycle
100 Base Damage
-10 Power

Heavy Beam Array
2/5 Firing Cycle
200 Base Damage
-12 Power

Beam Bank
4/5 Firing Cycle
130 Base Damage
-10 Power

Heavy Beam Bank
2/5 Firing Cycle
260 Base Damage
-12 Power

Turret
4/3 Firing Cycle
45 Base Damage
-8 Power

Heavy Turret
2/3 Firing Cycle
90 Base Damage
-10 Power

Like the SHC, the question would remain regarding whether there was any +CrtD or not...
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,649
# 9
08-18-2013, 03:16 AM
said it before, il say it again.

#1- power drain as % of dps potential.

#2- apply low multipliers so that high rof has a better anti shield multi & low rof is better for hull.

#3 add a bonus to shield bypass to beams

zomg it might even add tactics to a build beyond derpy dhc dakka spam...
amazing, weapons actually being a tactical choice rather than "yup dhc 'r jus' better lol"
Quote:
Originally Posted by redz4tw View Post
can you say attack pattern angry forumers 3?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,152
# 10
08-18-2013, 03:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
said it before, il say it again.

#1- power drain as % of dps potential.
DHC 116 DPS - 14.5 Drain
DC 116 DPS - 14.5 Drain
DBB 104 DPS - 13 Drain
SC 96 DPS - 12 Drain
BA 80 DPS - 10 Drain (as the base, it's 100 DPV)
Turret 60 - 7.5 Drain

Thing is...they're already pseudo balanced based on the stats they have. Yes, I personally believe that they're no longer balanced because of everything that's been added to the game - but that's just my opinion.

Can't just change one thing without looking at the other things...

Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
#2- apply low multipliers so that high rof has a better anti shield multi & low rof is better for hull.
Multipliers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
#3 add a bonus to shield bypass to beams
Why?
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
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