Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 966
# 21
08-22-2013, 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
Cute, but

With all those purple-12 consoles, fleet gear, and a lockbox ship, its not exactly 'readily available.' Can you make it work for under say 10m?
Nope, 10 m ec is unworkable.

Quote:
How does it actually get kills? Doesn't seem like 3 DBBs and a KCB are going to do a lot of punch.
Did you miss the part where I handily solo Tactical Cubes / Transformers / Gates? Surely, those aren't easy to kill all by yourself. 4 Energy Weapons constantly firing at maximum power will do a ton of damage no matter how you slice it. Plus, the ship also carries a decent kinetic punch with two hard hitting torpedos, boosted by Adapted MACO 2 piece +25% torpedo bonus and Rule 62 Combat + 11% Torpedo damage. Once the beams & drain down the shields, those torps do a ton of damage. Also, a ship that is shieldless, floating in space with defense = 0 will be easy pickings.

Quote:
A drain build with no flow caps?
Flow Capacitors skill = 159 Total drain : up to 96 per subsystem

Quote:
How many keybinds and micro-management does it take?
Nothing more than what you see on the screenshot, everything you need is there.

Quote:
No tac boffs? Flying with no TT?
With power transfer rate at 281%, I can manually re-distribute shields faster than TT does, especially for small amounts of damage, which TT tends to act as if it's not there unless there is a big hole. With my shielding, I tend not get big holes, instead, manual redistribution serves me better.

Quote:
Just looking at this thing, it seems like its highly dependent on a lot of money, micromanagement, and other people.
I am known as a lone wolf, everything I do is self-reliant. In fact, I dislike fleet actions. If a build is not self-reliant, I won't fly it. Maybe you should see the ship in action, feel free to send me a challenge in game @ iskandus
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 341
# 22
08-22-2013, 02:25 PM
thanks for the new build look iskandus since i have the Wells on standby on my tac i might dress it up for this new build thx for the insperation
Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 90
# 23
08-23-2013, 08:28 AM
What sort of other Sci Ships could this work with??

Im a Fed Klink Tac Captain looking at doing things a little different and this Sci Build looks pretty sweet?

Thanks In Advance
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 966
# 24 Updated weaponry and DPS
08-23-2013, 06:40 PM
In light of the feedback received regarding the lack of Tactical Stations and "can this ship kill anything" , I have since updated the weaponry on the Pure Science starship, see it here

The two Torpedos have been replaced with two Adv. Fleet Tetryon Turret Mk XII Acc X 2 + Dmg X 2

Here is the Damage and DPS of this vessel's weapons when buffed :

Adv. Fleet Dual Tetryon Beam Banks Mk XII Dmg = 2,793 ; DPS = 2,235

Hyper-Dual Tetryon Beam Banks Mk XII Dmg = 2,706 ; DPS =2,165

Cutting Beam Dmg = 2,660 ; DPS = 2,128

Adv. Fleet Tetryon Turret Mk XII Dmg = 994 ; DPS = 1,325


All six weapons can be fired simultaneously forward

Total Burst Damage = 2 X 2,793 + 2,706 + 2,660 + 2 X 994 = 12,940
Total DPS = 2 X 2,235 + 2,165 + 2,128 + 2 X 1,325 = 11,413

The Pure Science vessel can break the 10K DPS barrier without a single Tactical Station or tactical BOFF buff as seen above.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 966
In my original post, I was lazy and didn't use an up to date pic to demonstrate its super efficient power management in combat, here is pic taken during today's Gamma Orionis Daily : Weapons Power = 125 (150 with resistance buff), Shields Power = 130, Engines Power = 125, Auxiliary Power = 130

Notice the Borg Sphere had completely lost its shields on all 4 facings? It is not due to Subsystem Targeting to Shields but rather the corrosive effect of super charged Tetryon energy weapons hammering away on shields. Tetryon is an under-rated energy type, making them the cheapest on the Exchange because Escorts don't know how to use this. Unlike the Disruptors, Phasers and Polaron, where their proc effect is temporary - when Tetryon dissipates shields, the shields must regenerate in order to regain the lost capacity. This makes Tetryon an excellent choice for Science vessels with decent skills into Flow Capacitors due to their synergy in addition to being somewhat overlookd, therefore, enemies tend to have less resistance against this energy type in PvP.

See how the Borg Sphere was still completely shieldless moments later : Shieldless Borg Sphere All the way until it finally went kaboom : Borg Sphere exploded

Some would say : "That's nice but it's only a little Borg Sphere, how useful is this going to be against the Bosses?" Well, see for yourself : Tactical Cube boss in Infected Conduits (Elite) being drained

This was taken today at an ESTF against the final Tactical Borg Cube boss in Infected, notice how the Tactical Cube's shielding was virtually all gone on all facings? Typically, against these Bosses in ESTF, the group tends to focus on one or two facings, and focus on the sides where shields are down. In this case, the Tactical Cube was pretty much shieldless on all facings.

As you can see, this is what it looks like to have an effective Science vessel in a group, it significantly aids the other teammates by bringing down the enemies' shielding so that Escorts & Cruisers can pound away. While filling this support role, a Pure Science vessel also demonstrated tremendous amount of resilience via its hardened shielding and respectable firepower on its own.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 966
# 26 Space DOFFs
08-23-2013, 08:22 PM
A couple of people asked me via PM about the DOFFs used, so I am going to respond here by posting the set up during PvE :

Warp Core Engineer (Very Rare), Keel'el - Romulan

Quartermaster (Very Rare), Tyuxara Ilbret - Betazoid

Technician (Very Rare), Ten of Ten - Caitian X 3


- Keel'el cleanses the ship of all negative debuffs 40% of the time whenever EPtS or EPtE is activated. This is very useful against Plasma DOT, Borg Shield Neutralizer, Tactical debuffs (e.g. Fire on My Mark, APD, APB), Subnuke, Viral Matrix and etc. This doff can be have for 5 million ec on the exchange, a worthy investment on any ships

- Tyuxara decreases the CD on batteries by 100%. She is also by far the most expensive DOFF out there. These space purple Quartermaster for batteries are ultra rare as currently, there is only 2 for sale on the Exchange on the Starfleet side, one for 50 million ec, the other 78 million ec. For this build in PvE, she is nice to have but most definitely optional. Consider a Tractor Beam doff in her place instead if she is outside of your budget

- Ten of Ten are Technicians, which are required for A2B. They are farmed from Colonization missions, therefore, free

Last edited by iskandus; 08-23-2013 at 08:25 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 966
# 27
08-23-2013, 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neos472 View Post
thanks for the new build look iskandus since i have the Wells on standby on my tac i might dress it up for this new build thx for the insperation
Your are welcome.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hugereddogg View Post
What sort of other Sci Ships could this work with??

Im a Fed Klink Tac Captain looking at doing things a little different and this Sci Build looks pretty sweet?

Thanks In Advance
Can I start by saying I am happy to see a Klingon Starfleet captain here, the righteous ones who refused to go along with the tyranny of the evil empire, you are always welcome here at the Federation Shipyard. You asked a very good question and in conjunction with some other adaptation and budget issues that have been raised by others, I want to take the time to think this through and see what other ship(s) can one use as proxy, short of obtaining a Wells. I also want to examine if there is a way to make this set up more affordable without severely compromising its core capabilities. The Pure Science model is still just an experimental prototype but it has proven to be very effective so far - it took down a corrupted Romulan (who joined the Klingon Empire) in a Fleet Mogai (Valdore) handily on its own today in a Capture & Hold map - once again, the targeted ship's shields completely evaporated on all facings and both the feared Valdore console and its Tactical Team, were completely useless.

I want to believe there is a way for the Pure Science model to become more easily adaptable and more affordable to the various Science ship types even on an Olympic class hospital ship but I don't have the answer yet either way. The feedback so far on this thread has been helpful, I will need to take them into consideration and do more testing.

Last edited by iskandus; 08-23-2013 at 08:46 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 195
# 28
08-24-2013, 09:37 PM
Just to note, while this is claims to be "Pure Sci", only half the bridge are science boffs. The captain is tactical and there are two engineers. All doffs are engineers/operations. It is still a "Sci Cmdr" ship (ie. a science ship). I point this out since my own Sci/Sci ship has a Lt Cmdr engineer (two grades less than your tactical captain) and was duly noted as not pure science.

Does the GW variant do much damage without particle gens? The FBP version would seem to depend a lot on being hit by energy weapons. Torp builds could be an achilles heel.

It still looks like an exceptional build for a Tac/Sci ship. I was not aware of that nifty Warp Core engineer, which comes in a cheaper rare version as well but only 30% chance to clear debuffs. The purples have gone over 20MM ec since your post
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 966
# 29
08-25-2013, 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milandare View Post
Just to note, while this is claims to be "Pure Sci", only half the bridge are science boffs. The captain is tactical and there are two engineers. All doffs are engineers/operations. It is still a "Sci Cmdr" ship (ie. a science ship). I point this out since my own Sci/Sci ship has a Lt Cmdr engineer (two grades less than your tactical captain) and was duly noted as not pure science.
The definition of Pure Science as noted in Post #1 is a ship without Tactical Stations. There is no Federation Starship currently that allows an all-Science stations set up. I am leveling a Joint Trill Science captain at the moment, it is expected he too will be commanding a Wells when he is ready and when Iskan & K'Vork can fund his ship until he is fully independent.

Quote:
Does the GW variant do much damage without particle gens? The FBP version would seem to depend a lot on being hit by energy weapons. Torp builds could be an achilles heel.
Gravity Well III

FYI, Particle Generators skill = 144 Just because you don't see dedicated PG consoles doesn't mean it's not there. At 2,445 kinetic DPS, I'd say this GW III does respectable damage. Tested it in eSTF, worked great against non-shielded enemies and as well as Spheres & Nanite Spheres. FBP is meant primarily for PvP, although in Tau Dewa Sector fighting Tholian fleets, the FBP worked great against a whole fleet of Tholians doing FAW. In Crystalline Entity, this should be helpful as well. Though generally speaking, GW III is better suited for PvE. I have had some run-ins with Klingon BoP and T'Varo using all Torpedo set ups, suffice to say the inability to use FBP III against them is not a concern. This ship does a fair amount of pressure damage without FBPIII, plus, you are always at risk of being ambushed in PvP, therefore, the FBP III serves to keep the ambushers at bay even if you can't see them.


Quote:
It still looks like an exceptional build for a Tac/Sci ship. I was not aware of that nifty Warp Core engineer, which comes in a cheaper rare version as well but only 30% chance to clear debuffs. The purples have gone over 20MM ec since your post
Don't mean to cause a price spike like that, I am sure it will come down to more reasonable level.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 966
A new update on the weaponry for the Pure Science starship, see it here

One of the Adv. Fleet Tetryon DBB has been replaced by Omega Plasma Torpedo Launcher

Here is the Damage and DPS of this vessel's weapons when buffed :

Omega Plasma Torpedo Dmg = 3,954, DPS = 7,908 DoT Dmg = 3,447

Adv. Fleet Dual Tetryon Beam Banks Mk XII Dmg = 2,793 ; DPS = 2,235

Hyper-Dual Tetryon Beam Banks Mk XII Dmg = 2,706 ; DPS =2,165

Cutting Beam Dmg = 2,660 ; DPS = 2,128

Adv. Fleet Tetryon Turret Mk XII Dmg = 994 ; DPS = 1,325


All six weapons can be fired simultaneously forward

Total Burst Damage = 3,954 + 2,793 + 2,706 + 2,660 + 2 X 994 = 14,101
Total DPS = 7,908 + 2,235 + 2,165 + 2,128 + 2 X 1,325 = 17,086

Additional Plasma DoT : 345 DPS per Plasma Torpedo for 10 seconds (100% Shield Bypass)

In addition, this new build removed Photonic Officer I in favor of Tachyon Beam II.


Justification


Previously, this prototype had 6 Energy Weapons all firing simultaneously forward. While this created an impressive pressure, the set up also consumed so much energy that it was very difficult if not almost impossible to maintain Weapons Power at 125 or above all the time despite the super efficient power management. As a result, some of the Energy Weapons would fire at less than optimal power level of 125. To solve this problem, one of the fore DBB has to be replaced with another high pressure weapon that can do as much if not more DPS than the DBB but more energy efficient. As such, there is only one weapon who can accomplish this goal - the Omega Plasma Torpedo Launcher. Currently, the Omega Plasma Torp can fire once every 0.5 second. Its design allows it to fire an endless stream of non-targetable mini-Plasma Energy Bolt at a faster firing rate than any DBB or Cannons. Given this ship is fully spec for Projectile Weaponry and its equipment and console provides a +36 to projectile damage - equal to equipping two Prefire Warhead Chamber MK XII Blue consoles - the addition of one Torpedo launcher makes a lot of sense and fully utilizes the ship's bonuses.

The result is a top DPS of 17,086 vs. 11,413 previously, that's 50% higher than before and consumes less energy overall. Caveat is a greater % of this DPS is now Kinetic, however it is compensated by an additional Plasma DoT damage, which by pass shields 100%. The Plasma DoT burns very rapidly and ferociously - whereas most other Plasma burn for 15 sec, the Omega Plasma burn lasts only 10 sec for up to 3,447 plasma damage. Due to the rapid firing nature of Omega Plasam Torp, a target can receive up to 8 of such stacking Plasma DoT in a span of merely 4 seconds. If they are all allowed to burn without being cleansed, they will do over 27K+ in hull damage in merely 10 sec. This works great in both PvE and PvP.

Another change is the removal of Photonic Officer from the build. In my test, I found that the use of PO in addition to A2B often result in overkill for most powers, aka. redundant. Only 3 or 4 skills out of the entire tray can benefit from both CD reduction powers. Secondly, PO has a 1 minute CD in which case A2B stands alone. This creates an inconsistency where sometimes they can both be activated at the same time and other times, they cannot. This can throw a Captain's timing off and unsure when to expect a certain power to be ready for another activation. Another issue is A2B's impact on Aux power - the ship needs some time to recover from Aux drain after an A2B ends even with 281% in power transfer rate and the Aux Battery should only be used in crunch. Given many of the powers need to be activated at max Aux, a slight delay is actually beneficial in lieu of immediate activation at less than optimal Aux level. Therefore, PO I is replaced by another Science boff power that can synergize well with the now higher kinetic based attacks of the ship - Tachyon Beam II. The forum has been dismissing the Tachyon Beam as useless for some reasons. However, a few tests involving Tachyon Beam with this set up shows such view is completely mistaken and outdated. The Tachyon Beam II is draining 506 shield per facing for 10 pulses in merely 4 seconds. In other words, if you can hold it for 4 seconds, each activation will drain 5060 shield per facing for over 20K in total shield damages, minus any resistance. Tachyon Beam no longer has a shared CD with Energy Siphon, even though Wiki says otherwise. It is also now a 135 degree firing arc, making it a lot easier to maintain the arc. Given that its CD is only 30 seconds, it can be recycled very rapidly. Assuming you can activate it once every 20 sec (due to A2B), that adds another 1000 DPS to your ship without occupying any weapons slot.

Tested it extensively in eSTF against Borg, in Tau Dewa Sector against Tholians and as well in Kerrat against Klingon players - all tests confirm Tachyon Beam II to be very, very effective shield drain power. It can strip away a Tholian Orb Weaver's shields entirely so fast, it was shocking to see. Even against Borg Cubes and Tactical Cubes, the effect is very noticeable. Combined with Tractor Beam II with shield drain doff, stripping away an opponent's shield has become very easy. This may be in part due to other drain abilities lowering target's shield resistance such as ES II, Plasmonic Leech and Subsystem Targeting, but a private testing with another Fleet member today shows even a stand-alone Tractor Beam II was draining down an Aegis Covariant Shield on a Mirror Sovereign down to 25% in merely 14 seconds.

As such, Omega Plasma Torp being a kinetic damage weapon is not an issue for this build because it can effectively strip shields so that the Torps can hit hull directly.

Last edited by iskandus; 08-25-2013 at 07:44 PM. Reason: typos
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