Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,703
# 51
09-11-2013, 07:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordhavelock View Post
Is it the fact that it's a time-gated 36 days (ie you can't play harder/more to get done sooner), or that you have to bother using up a fair amount of gameplay time fighting pixels (PvE) instead of other players? Or both? How would you resolve the problem?

And you quoted my thoughts on account-wide unlocking... Are you suggesting if the Rep was one-and-done, you could make all the future PvP alts you want and they'd already be competitive?
Worse the 36 days that you need to get the rep passives, are just the start. They add up, then comes the set gear, special consoles, etc. this is a huge resource drain, that gets you on square one for pvp.

I consider someone without access to assim set to be actively handy-capped. Somewhere on your way to T5 in all rep systems you can enter pvp on square one concerning gear.

To do that much rep grind effectively you want a dps focused build, using some of the rep goodies. This distracts you/ takes resources away from creating an effective team build for pvp.

Basically its a huge resource drain away from usefull pvp gear, forcing you into pve builds, and a giant "waste" of pve time.

I think two approaches are needed to help with this:
1) account wide discounts for new alts.
2) Match making mechanics in the public queues, that take both gear level and pvp experience (based on account) into consideration.

I don't have numbers for this for obvious reason, but i wonder how many people level an eng to be a healer, and then at endgame stay away from pvp after they realize they would have to do it all over again, because science healers is where it is currently at.
Joined 06.10
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PvP 2012-2013
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 253
# 52
09-11-2013, 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by canis36 View Post
Good lord, do you people even listen? The Devs have stated that they will never make the Reputation system account bound. Accept it and move on. The sooner you do the sooner they'll actually listen to you. Havelock's suggestions, even if I don't really agree with all of them or have ideas of my own I'd prefer are good, solid and acknowledges that the Devs will not make the reputations account bound.
I'm sorry, I didn't know that they said that. I meant it in a lighthearted way, because I'm sure many of us would like it to happen.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,780
# 53
09-11-2013, 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
...Basically its a huge resource drain away from usefull pvp gear, forcing you into pve builds, and a giant "waste" of pve time.

I think two approaches are needed to help with this:
1) account wide discounts for new alts.
2) Match making mechanics in the public queues, that take both gear level and pvp experience (based on account) into consideration...
Clearly I agree with approach #1. I don't PvP, but I get your points and I also agree with your #2 solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by axellightning View Post
I'm sorry, I didn't know that they said that...
It's ok, I only mentioned it in the OP.


You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Original Join Date: Feb 2010.
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Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 116
# 54
09-11-2013, 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordhavelock View Post
Is it the fact that it's a time-gated 36 days (ie you can't play harder/more to get done sooner), or that you have to bother using up a fair amount of gameplay time fighting pixels (PvE) instead of other players? Or both? How would you resolve the problem?

And you quoted my thoughts on account-wide unlocking... Are you suggesting if the Rep was one-and-done, you could make all the future PvP alts you want and they'd already be competitive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordhavelock View Post
For the record, *I* don't think the Rep System is bad. Pretty sure in my first sentence of the OP I even states that I like it, so I'm not sure what you think we're agreeing on.

I mean, yes, it's flawed, but it's not bad.

As for not being a job to get end game gear... Consider it's fairly easy to complete one Rep on one character. 15mins or less worth of play per day for 36 days. That's not really much effort, certainly not what I'd consider a job! Even if you count three Reps, it's still only about 30-40 daily mins or so to get the necessary resources and click a bunch of buttons. And the best part is you don't have to play each day. You can take as much time off as you'd like and it'll be right were you left it.

Is it Grindy? Yeah. I have solutions for that in the OP.
Does it involve Mindless Clicking? Yeah. Again, OP has solutions.

The Rep system only really starts to become problematic when you consider running it on multiple characters, but then, I have suggested solutions for that too.

You might argue the Time Gating factor sucks, I'm likely to agree there. Especially if you take a day off from the game, then you basically stretch completion out another day, with no way to "make up for it." I'm considering adding that as a Fourth thing to Fix in my OP.

.

Thanks!
I was agreeing that the Rep system is not good or perfect. That it could be made better. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

As for the account wide unlocking...yes and no. Yes all of the Rep Tiers unlocked, but no to having all the store items unlocked to be bought. Each character needs to unlock each store item, or do what's needed to get the special gear. And that gear is character bound. But the Rep Tier itself unlocked per account. There is a 'mission' that has to be run to claim the tier, and that's what I think can have an increasing cost and time factor on a per character basis. Each successive character that starts the claim increases the cost for the next character at that tier. This reduces the grind but still makes some effort to be applied to gain any benefit from the tier. That is what I was thinking, hopefully presented more clearly.

As for it being a job, it is, but not in sense that you presented. The time involvment to get one character loaded up with the marks and materials to start the rep gain mission is not excessive for one rep. But, typically for the time I am online, I take 20 minutes to get one mission started for one character for one rep. 3 reps each having 2 missions equals a total of 6 missions. 6 missions at 20 minutes is 2 hour comimitment for that one character. For four characters is 8 hours. That is a time slot of a normal job. And this is just to do the rep. Does not include doing anything that yoiu want to do for fun! SO yes, it's a job. I have paired this down to 1 hour per charcter by cutting half of the missions (I only do the mission that gets me the 2000 rep points and not the 800). This alone will take 50 days, if I did it every day. But I can't log in everyday. And I can't get to every character everytime I log in so this is going to take me months. I would really like to reduce this time sink and increase time for having fun.

And before you say I don't need to do this, I do. If I want to be the best that I can be for my fleet, I have too. Otherwise why be in the fleet? I am only hurting them.

And the time gate actually doesn't bother me. It's just the repetative nature to have to do the rep for each character over and over again is what bothers me for the small number of characters I have, compared to you. And I do not look forward to have to go through this same grind for my planed 5 more characters.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 249
# 55
09-12-2013, 07:32 AM
+1 to this thread's OP.

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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 650
# 56
10-04-2013, 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveyny View Post
I just wish They would stop with all the individual types of Marks and just let us play the game the way we want...

Instead of trying to 'guide' us to what They want us to play.

Let me earn Marks in what ever fashion I prefer, and put it towards whichever Rep I desire.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 57
10-05-2013, 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordhavelock View Post
Problem: Excessive Boring Clicking!
To me the least fun aspect of the Rep "Grind" is visiting vendors, buying the same old hypos, shields, regens, commodities, etc. over and over again... It's better now that ground items let us buy in quantities of 100 (with the frustrating exception of Power Cells, still at 20). But I still have to make too many trips to a vendor, and click too many shops, slide too many sliders, etc. And then once I get the resources, I have to click too many times in the Rep window on Contribute, Sliding the Bar, etc.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,780
# 58
10-09-2013, 04:36 PM
Brandon posted links to his Twitter feed where he was sharing a bit about the new S8 Vorn Rep. There are ito be fewer inputs and some sort of account-wide-helping mechanic... And earlier Dev reports say that the new Vorn Rep mechanics are intended to be retro'd to the older reps if they go well.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=876541

I like the direction of these improvements.


You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Original Join Date: Feb 2010.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 617
# 59
10-10-2013, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordhavelock View Post
Brandon posted links to his Twitter feed where he was sharing a bit about the new S8 Vorn Rep. There are ito be fewer inputs and some sort of account-wide-helping mechanic... And earlier Dev reports say that the new Vorn Rep mechanics are intended to be retro'd to the older reps if they go well.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=876541

I like the direction of these improvements.

I'm...cautiously optimisitic. That's only the 2k rep project and we have no idea if these are the new system's marks (implying only one mark per day!?) or some item like the Shards from the CC event.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,173
# 60
10-10-2013, 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by canis36 View Post
I'm...cautiously optimisitic. That's only the 2k rep project and we have no idea if these are the new system's marks (implying only one mark per day!?) or some item like the Shards from the CC event.
That's a smart stance to have; Cryptic will get it's time and money from you one way or another. Sure, you wont have to tediously click for hypos anymore, but you WILL have to stay in a mission longer, or you WILL get paid less on average by missions relating to that particular rep.
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