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View Poll Results: Which of these societies from ST: Voyager would you most like to encounter in STO?
The Kazon 329 15.89%
The Vidiian 348 16.81%
The Krenim 925 44.69%
The Malon 70 3.38%
The Hierarchy 211 10.19%
The Devore 187 9.03%
Voters: 2070. You may not vote on this poll

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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 31
# 571
08-29-2013, 11:56 AM
Voyager was a show I watched the first season of and then lost track of when I went away to college and didn't have a TV in my dorm room. I did watch it all the way through the past couple of years, and I have to say, for all the flack people give it, I really enjoyed it. Like all trek shows, the early seasons were a bit uneven and then it really got moving about halfway through. Once they hit Borg space it was on, IMHO.

Though it seems clear they won't win the poll, I would like to see the Vidiian. They are grotesque (wearing dead skin masks, are you kidding me???), scary (guns that extract organs? what could be worse?), and desperate. They also touch on one of Voyagers key themes, that of sticking to your principles versus doing what must be done to survive in an amoral universe. A cultured society made butchers by disease.

The Krenim episode was great as well, I almost feel like that was Voyager: The Motion Picture. They would be my number 2 pick. What would really be hot is if they made some feature episodes featuring the voice acting of the dad from "That '70s Show"... he was fantastic in that role. Complicated and deeply wounded.

The Malon would be an odd pick, but after watching those spatial charges they fired in action (I rewatched some episodes to remind me of what I was voting for), I am a bit intrigued there. Different than both mines and torpedoes. Maybe a weapon that fires a full spread style AoE at a single target. And obviously some radiation leaking madness.

Randomly, I'd love to get some Xindi down the line, once Voyager/Delta quadrant material has been added.
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,204
# 572
08-29-2013, 12:43 PM
I dont know about everyone else but going back and rehashing the same species that voyager came into contact with and nothing new seems kinda boring. Voyager was like a car on a highway, they didnt see a whole lot. Kinda like driving across country on I80 which I have done 4 times. you see a few things along the way but theres a whole lot just off your path that you dont see.

I would prefer something completely new and unique to STO, maybe have the khazon but have them like an annoyance for you and the main enemy is a species that moved into their space and is effing them up and doesnt exactly like you either. After 30 years allot can happen and space is vast.

Some of the others in that list could use something fresh, maybe an advanced species Voyager missed thats at war with a species they did come across and the player makes contact under friendly terms and an alliance is struck allowing the federation to put a forward base there and you help them in the war.

Just rehashing Voyager... Dull and boring.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 23
# 573
08-29-2013, 12:53 PM
Are you ever going to give us a more tactical Intrepid class? I would gladly pay 50 dollars for that. I am so happy the upcoming content is going to be "more Voyager", it was my most favorite Trek show. But so far the sci version of the Intrepid class has simply been.... lame. :-)
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 523
# 574
08-29-2013, 12:56 PM
I have no idea why Krenim is so wanted. We already have temporal related ships and it's not bad to have more per se but still.. The Devore were way cooler.. In case anybody forgot about them you can see their ships at the end of the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=injd460GTWU

As you can tell they were highly militaristic and that means fun. I don't want a babylon-five looking temporal ship that would probably only have a scimitar-like weapon anyway.
Ensign
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 19
# 575
08-29-2013, 03:22 PM
Maybe this thought isn't new, but think about it.

The Kazon are unwanted by the Borg, so that makes them the perfect soldier to fight the Borg. The Kazon could hire themselves out as mercs that excel at taking out the Borg...as long as they have the ability/tech to. Well, if they don't have the means someone else might and could equip the Kazon with the ability to deal with the Borg threat and contract them out. This gives the Kazon a reason to be in the game and hell, even gives them a story arc to explore.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,265
# 576
08-29-2013, 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by protoclone View Post
Maybe this thought isn't new, but think about it.

The Kazon are unwanted by the Borg, so that makes them the perfect soldier to fight the Borg. The Kazon could hire themselves out as mercs that excel at taking out the Borg...as long as they have the ability/tech to. Well, if they don't have the means someone else might and could equip the Kazon with the ability to deal with the Borg threat and contract them out. This gives the Kazon a reason to be in the game and hell, even gives them a story arc to explore.
A flawed idea. The Kazon are not wanted by the Borg because they do not offer enough biological and technological traits to make them worthy for assimilation.
If you equip them to fight the Borg, the Borg will categorize them as threat, kill them and assimilate the technology.
The Kazon can do nothing others could not do better on that field.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 5,140
# 577
08-29-2013, 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by protoclone View Post
Maybe this thought isn't new, but think about it.

The Kazon are unwanted by the Borg, so that makes them the perfect soldier to fight the Borg. The Kazon could hire themselves out as mercs that excel at taking out the Borg...as long as they have the ability/tech to. Well, if they don't have the means someone else might and could equip the Kazon with the ability to deal with the Borg threat and contract them out. This gives the Kazon a reason to be in the game and hell, even gives them a story arc to explore.
The Kazon are unwanted by the Borg because they're such complete idiots that assimilating them would weaken the Borg Collective. Their tech base isn't much to look at either: their ships are demonstrably inferior to AQ vessels, and Borg tech is supposedly better than AQ. In the pilot Voyager and an outdated courier vessel held off multiple Kazon ships with relative ease, even after they brought in what they considered a battleship. (Granted, taking that one out required the Val Jean to ram it, but if it can be destroyed by ramming from a comparatively tiny ship moving not that fast, it's not very tough.)

I can see the Klingons, or maybe more likely the Romulans, duping them into becoming disposable cannon fodder, though.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 129
# 578 Intelligent Communique'
08-29-2013, 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaliron View Post
This thread is now so long forgive me if I repeat ideas already mentioned. They are included for completeness. That being said... incoming wall o' text.

1. Getting to the DQ:

a. My favorite idea is that we essentially reverse the events of "Endgame" (VOY) by taking over parts of the Borg transwarp network. There were six hubs before the episode, and more may have been constructed after. This propels the conflict against the Borg forward within the story while opening the Delta Quadrant up. In my opinion this is best executed as a pre-launch episode where players take over a new Borg conduit, or a new transwarp gate is constructed to stabilize an opening from one of the Alpha Quadrant exits from the network. Either way players can defend new construction or take over old and then perhaps take over relay stations to access the DQ. This will put the Borg on the defensive and escalate the conflict, and both Feds and Klingons will need to gather DQ resources to keep the pressure on. Both factions may arrive together via Task Force Omega cooperation or separately, but the result likely would be the same.

b. In the episode "The Nth Degree" (THG) Barclay encounters an alien probe and temporarily gains the technical knowledge of the Cytherian civilization. While he loses this knowledge by the end of the episode, sensor readings of the event remain and the Cytherians share (somewhat unspecified) knowledge with the Enterprise which Picard muses "will take our scholars decades to examine." While introducing the full capacity to travel halfway across the galaxy immediately is not necessary, knowledge gained from this event may allow a number of advances in travel technology especially since it is not warp-based. (credit to my fleet buddy Josh for reminding me of the Cytherians)

c. In possible conjunction with the above idea or separately the subspace corridors used by the Vaadwaur in the episode "Dragon's Teeth" (VOY) are a consideration. While they may not extend into known space, it is possible. The Vaadwaur may not have explored the entirety of this network, and as a natural phenomena it may have altered over time.

d. The wormhole in "Eye of the Needle" (VOY) was stable and could potentially be tinkered wit. It's exit was in Romulan space which would be accessible to both factions now. Said wormhole was also temporally out of touch at both ends, but that could also be a plot point worthy of an episode.

e. The wormhole in "The Price" (TNG) and "False Profits" (VOY) was destabilized during the latter episode, but may have been re-stabilized (intentionally or naturally) by the current time. Discovery of the natural phenomenon or attempts to tame the wormhole may make a decent story.

f. Similar to my suggestion with the Borg, an Iconian gateway could be utilized. They are already in game and again you can conjoin the stories to some extent, allowing for that increased level of depth.


2. New Factions:

I think the concept of a new faction in the Delta Quadrant is ultimately self-defeating. The Romulans are not a fully separate faction so what species in the DQ merits such a presence? Why make a totally separate and segregated experience? I think it may be far more practical from a design perspective to make the DQ in play for the Federation and Klingons for the following reasons:

a. The Borg conflict needs some movement story-wise. Even if my first idea is not used to access the Delta Quadrant, the fight needs to go to them at some point. This would escalate the conflict in the story and provide payoff to players for previous efforts.

b. The DQ is a fractured place ripe for conquest by the Klingons and thus forcing the Federation to follow suit (via diplomacy of course). Again they will need more resources to bring the fight to the Borg.

c. Since none of the DQ powers really have a deep and multi-racial cast, one would have to be created, and that requires a lot of effort to create a faction that will never have the depth of story that the Federation or Klingons have.

d. Incorporation of DQ races could still include new leveling content, and also provide a simple concept to fuel the story "How do these people end up with whichever side?" Said content may also be available in part to Federation and Klingon players to provide more varied leveling content or simply more episodes to complete.

The above ideas all revolve around convergence. Writing a story about a race that appears in one or two episodes (few appear in more than that) is going to be a lot easier when they interact with the more well-known aspects of the Star Trek franchise. Tying it all together to create a larger plot web will deepen the experience.


3. Various ideas for the inclusion of DQ races in no particular order:

a. Borg: The most powerful force within the DQ for certain. Their threat should loom overhead, but not always be directly mentioned. They can be used to motivate various actions by other races within the story. Shoehorning them in is a mistake to avoid though as they should not be the one and only motivation for all things. Like any "villain" they need to be used delicately.

b. Undine: They may still retain a presence in the DQ and may also be an excellent source of action. They may find themselves conflicted in wanting to use other races against the Borg, but not have those races come out too strong to defeat. Walking that tightrope may lead to interesting plot developments.

c. Vaadwaur: While not used in more than one episode this race has story potential. Their surviving members were last seen fleeing into their underspace and in search of rebuilding their empire. As the scientist Gedrin states, both versions of their history as conquerors and explorers is true, and they may also provide more nuanced options for players whether they become playable or as NPCs.

d. Krenim: As the polls indicate people want them in-game. While a lot of this may be due to the want of a temporal ship that no longer exists in the story, it does not mean they cannot be more than that. Their Chroniton torpedo tech is already in the game and regardless of the temporal ship's erasure from history, it does not mean they are done meddling with temporal technology. Their use of such tech may bnring them into conflict with not only the players but the Tholians and could lead to mirror universe DQ content, which could prove interesting.

e. Talaxians: The Talaxian colony where Neelix ended up may provide a contact point for the federation if they travel to the DQ. They would make excellent candidates for Federation members of course and I suspect that is appealing to a number of players.

f. Vidiians: While the Phage was cured with a rather oblique comment in a later episode "Think Tank" (VOY), This may be an available plot point. The Phage was a very devastating disease that had a huge psychological effect for over two millennia and any cure to the disease likely involved genetic changes to the species which may have had unforseen side effects. The Think Tank liked solving problems but was notoriously amoral and may have failed to mention side effects which may also have provided another interesting problem to solve.

g. Kazon: While they did not work out too well in the show I find them a quite suitable candidate for Klingon conquest. They would have to be "convinced" by conquest I imagine, but would also fit right in once subdued. They also subjugate or raid other species, and may be a central part of Klingon conquest in the DQ if that plot point is used.

h. Voth: The Voth are slaves to doctrine where Voyager leaves off, but they may have undergone cultural changes by this point. Indeed they are possibly ripe for a civil war between fundamentalists and more progressive elements. Progressives may have cause to join the Federation while Fundamentalists remain hostile to all and particularly Humans.

i. Hirogen: Frankly the Hirogen offer little unless they undergo some cultural changes. They do have some similarities to the Klingons in that they may find working with the Empire offers the chance to test their skills and Klingons have great respect for hunting skills. On the other hand they may find Klingons the best prey. Hirogen society is fractured and decentralized so both may be true at the same time.

j. Devore: The Devore have little material to draw on. Their tech level is closer to the Federation but their hatred of telepaths makes them poor candidates to join either faction. They may be capable of prosecuting a crusade against telepaths especially if the Undine are revealed to be working among them. This could make them allies at times and enemies at others.

k. Ocampa: Since they have few if any holdings within the source material they are likely best used as a minor story species. Some may choose to live among the Federation but they may also be conquered by the Klingons, though they would not likely flourish under them. They may find themselves in the crosshairs of the Devore, or entwined in the psychic meddling of the Undine. Those on their home world may serve as a contested point if the Kazon join the Klingons and the Ocampa become Federation allies. Those cared for by Suspiria may have rejoined or at least reconnected with their home world.

l. The Dominion: As a major power within a neighboring quadrant, they too may wish to expand into the DQ. They may be conquering, they may be exploring, or both. The Gamma Quadrant would sensibly have more than just the one wormhole and it is possible they have access to one that goes to the DQ. Caution may be needed though as the Dominion represents in my opinion the most viable power to become another faction. It is also sensible that Borg threaten them as well. Jem'Hadar might make poor drones though unless the Borg can compensate for Ketracel addiction.

m. Last but not least... Liberated DQ Borg/Remnants of Unimatrix Zero: The only vastly multi-racial and potentially in-depth source for a new faction other than the Dominion. Again it could bring old content together with new, and also allow contact with the current factions via the transwarp network. If not included as a faction they certainly would be a result of the Feds and Klingons arriving in the DQ. There are many possibilities here and frankly many of them need not be mentioned, because this is the one potential faction that has significant source material.

EDIT:

n. Hierarchy and Malon: I forgot about them within a post where they appear on a poll, which I think reflects their ranking in most people's memories. The Malon are only known through their waste disposal specialists which while an important part of their existence, doesn't exactly tell us much about the rest of who they are. The Hierarchy is basically a comically overly complicated bureaucracy, It may be amusing to conquer them as Klingons and put them to work scrubbing conduits.
# 546 Primaliron talks Voyager
This Post. I Like It!
This post is both one of the most intelligent and one of the best i've ever seen for this or any Forum! My Hat is off to you, Sir!

So many good points i don't have the time to explore them all...
So i'll be brief.

I'm sure the Krenim/other race(s) are not going to be introduced as a playable faction but rather as a strictly NPC race/faction, to thwart and/or be courted by the factions both playable and not from the AQ & BQ. New BOffs & doffs no doubt. There is plenty to explore with each of these races (except Kazon IMHO). As for Krenim ships i'm certain the Temporal Weapon Ship is OFF the list of playable ships, period. It IS a prime Big Bad, like the Command Ships of Unimatrix 0047. Any of the other ships from "Year of Hell" are good candidates for a playable ship or 2. Or perhaps a Faction-neutral Temporal Cruiser made by one timeline's Krenim Imperium to combat a new Weapon Ship that threatens their existance.

Again, Many Thanks to Primaliron! And thank you to Cryptic and PWE for including us in the decision-making process!
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 793
# 579
08-29-2013, 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kortaag View Post
I have no idea why Krenim is so wanted. We already have temporal related ships and it's not bad to have more per se but still.. The Devore were way cooler.. In case anybody forgot about them you can see their ships at the end of the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=injd460GTWU

As you can tell they were highly militaristic and that means fun. I don't want a babylon-five looking temporal ship that would probably only have a scimitar-like weapon anyway.
Agreed. Looking at that clip, it alone provides so much that can be done in their territory alone: evading, stealth, more stories with telepathic characters.

And for the Nth time the Krenim DON'T HAVE such technology at the moment.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,951
# 580
08-29-2013, 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by apocalypse2001 View Post
Agreed. Looking at that clip, it alone provides so much that can be done in their territory alone: evading, stealth, more stories with telepathic characters.

And for the Nth time the Krenim DON'T HAVE such technology at the moment.
The Krenim don't have what? Annorax built the weapon ship 2 centuries before it was destroyed by Janeway. What sort of terrifying technological advances might they have made since then?

Sure, in the 2170s they were at war with the Rilnar and Annorax thought they were doomed, but how did history play out? Well, at the end of Year of Hell, the war was apparently still raging. TWO CENTURIES later. The Krenim obviously had considerable tech at their disposal even without the weapon ship.

Another curious thing is found in the episode Infinite Regress. In that ep, 7 starts manifesting personalities of other individuals that had been assimilated. One of them was a Krenim scientist who was an expert in temporal physics. This suggests that Annorax's knowledge was not unique amongst the Krenim, just his weapon ship design.

Could other Krenim have built similarly devastating weapons? for that matter.... WHICH Krenim designed the time phased torpedos? Apparently not Annorax.
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