Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 484
# 11
08-27-2013, 11:41 PM
One problem with the cloaking device is that I think it turns off when a dialogue appears so you have to be very careful where they occur. Also, if your narrative requires you to activate (and re-activate after every dialogue), the player might ignore or fail to remember to comply.



But I was also asking about combat on the point of breaking up problems such as repedity. Clearing a deck of Klingons for instance can get a bit dull if it is just go down corridor, kill mob, turn left into room, kill mob, carry on down corridor, kill mob... and so on. Do people think it makes a difference to space enemy NPCs out at consoles and talking to each other, rather than in their neat formation (I've no idea why actual people would do that, if they are waiting to fight you, why not just storm you all together??)? What other objectives are good at making it more interesting?

& Rose Tinted Mirror (Fed 31+)
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 14,503
# 12
08-28-2013, 08:41 AM
Well, in your klingon example, perhaps the klingon objective is different from yours? Perhaps they're trying to seize the ship? One thing I like is missions with a dual objective. So for the boarding party example, maybe you need to fix things the klingons have broken?
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,562
# 13
08-28-2013, 09:02 AM
In my opinion, a cream of the crop Foundry mission is one where three aspects of a Foundry mission are working together towards a single goal: story, visuals and gameplay. Combat falls under the umbrella of gameplay and represents how the player is allowed to respond to the mission. Gameplay, and by extent combat, works best when they are working closely with the story. (I should point out that combat isn't the only form of gameplay so don't think I'm saying non-combat missions can't be on top.)

The flow of combat must mirror the flow of story. Combat (like story) has a rising dramatic arc, a climax and so on. The peaks of the combat should be hitting aat the same time as the peaks in the story. Even visuals work best if when mirroring the story, with the big visual reveal happening at the same time as the story climax.

@greendragoon

Last edited by thegreendragoon1; 08-28-2013 at 09:09 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,032
# 14
08-28-2013, 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
In "Diplomacy in the Gamma Quadrant" (KDF) I setup a trigger where if you interact with something (after being warned to leave it alone), it'll spawn an enemy behind you. Needless to say, if you don't see it coming that fight will be a bit rough.. (Enliss is mean. )
ooh thats sneaky, and i just know my curiosity would get me in trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by paxfederatica View Post
The introduction of Romulans as a playable faction adds a new wrinkle to this topic.

The Feds don't have cloaking devices (on most of their ships, anyway), so if you put an enemy in front of a Fed player, it'll usually take some doing to avoid fighting them even without a kill objective. The Klingons do have cloaking devices, but then, well, they're Klingons; combat is pretty much what they do, and few KDF authors are going to pretend otherwise. But now we have the Romulans, who also have cloaking devices but lack the Klingons' cultural disposition toward fighting as the first option. This makes it easier from both a practical standpoint and a storytelling one to have the player avoid a conflict scenario (or at least give them the option of doing so).

One example of this is in the last map of my first Romulan mission "Valley of the Shadow I", in which the player must defeat a couple of enemy mobs in space, but when reinforcements arrive, the player is given the option of taking them on as well, or engaging the cloaking device (if they have one) and departing the system without confronting them.
i like that option at the end , good to be able to avoid combat when appropriate

Quote:
Originally Posted by isthisscience View Post
One problem with the cloaking device is that I think it turns off when a dialogue appears so you have to be very careful where they occur. Also, if your narrative requires you to activate (and re-activate after every dialogue), the player might ignore or fail to remember to comply.



But I was also asking about combat on the point of breaking up problems such as repedity. Clearing a deck of Klingons for instance can get a bit dull if it is just go down corridor, kill mob, turn left into room, kill mob, carry on down corridor, kill mob... and so on. Do people think it makes a difference to space enemy NPCs out at consoles and talking to each other, rather than in their neat formation (I've no idea why actual people would do that, if they are waiting to fight you, why not just storm you all together??)? What other objectives are good at making it more interesting?
I have tried to set up any enemy mobs in ways that seem sensible, they are spaced in ways that (attempts) to make them look like they are speaking to one another , or doing tasks ( using the mixture of chat animation and normal animations so they alternate from task to task) to make em look like they are up to stuff

as far as where they are i prefer it when authors place them apart from one another
( too many times the enemy mobs too close join the fight and i can't beat 3 commnder mobs all at once)


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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,555
# 15
08-28-2013, 09:26 AM
The Mission I'm currently in the process of writing will have two options the first one is the standard combat setup. But if you look hard there will be a way around fighting and using more stealth until the Boss battle at the end. This however will only be for the ground combat with the storyline the way it is I'm not sure how I could think of a way to avoid the space combat portion.

When the mission is completely finished and published on the foundry I will advertise here.
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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,897
# 16
08-28-2013, 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robeasom View Post
I'm not sure how I could think of a way to avoid the space combat portion.
Hi Robeasom,

In my second mission I have given the player (who warps into an ambush) the option to go head-on OR go for a route which totally avoid any space combat.

You can try it out: Collectiveness strikes gold, II (ST-HD8T7FAI8). More specifically the map "Kalferi II". I used those "blink marker" combined with dialogs.


Screenshots and the Kalferi II foundry map.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 14,503
# 17
08-28-2013, 09:46 AM
When I did "The Beta Rana incident" (Fed, but currently down due to technical issues) I setup a situation where your goal is to reach a starbase. You can either go through the enemies or around them. Whether you fight them or not is completely up to the player.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,897
# 18
08-28-2013, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
When I did "The Beta Rana incident" (Fed, but currently down due to technical issues) I setup a situation where your goal is to reach a starbase. You can either go through the enemies or around them. Whether you fight them or not is completely up to the player.
^^ The best way for combat; choice
^^ I am Stoutes, and I approve of my message (and inb4exploit!) ^^
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 342
# 19
08-29-2013, 07:06 AM
I like all these ideas, and I'll definitely bear them in mind for my Foundry mission (if it ever happens). Thanks for starting this thread!

It seems to me there can actually be more skill involved in evading combat in STO than in just blowing up everything in sight. Although that may just be because I'm not very good at combat. Recently came across a random exploration zone mission (T'Ong Nebula, I think) where there were five spy satellites guarded by Federation ships, but the only objective was to destroy all five satellites. That turned out to be a lot of fun, de-cloaking for long enough to blow up each satellite, then switching full power to engines and watching the Feds disappear in the distance. Turns out a piffling little first-level B'rel can outrun everything but a cruiser without breaking a sweat. Completely unKlingon behaviour it MAY have been, but hey... my captain's ex-Borg. He's not really a Klingon any more. Not when it doesn't suit him, anyway.

Speaking of which, don't assume automatically that it's not worth making combat optional in a KDF mission. Remember, *not all KDF captains are Klingons*.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,032
# 20
08-29-2013, 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat140 View Post
I like all these ideas, and I'll definitely bear them in mind for my Foundry mission (if it ever happens). Thanks for starting this thread!

It seems to me there can actually be more skill involved in evading combat in STO than in just blowing up everything in sight. Although that may just be because I'm not very good at combat. Recently came across a random exploration zone mission (T'Ong Nebula, I think) where there were five spy satellites guarded by Federation ships, but the only objective was to destroy all five satellites. That turned out to be a lot of fun, de-cloaking for long enough to blow up each satellite, then switching full power to engines and watching the Feds disappear in the distance. Turns out a piffling little first-level B'rel can outrun everything but a cruiser without breaking a sweat. Completely unKlingon behaviour it MAY have been, but hey... my captain's ex-Borg. He's not really a Klingon any more. Not when it doesn't suit him, anyway.

Speaking of which, don't assume automatically that it's not worth making combat optional in a KDF mission. Remember, *not all KDF captains are Klingons*
this right here is an excellent observation and one i will keep in mind if i ever make a KDF aligned mission

i also like to provide a klingon(ish) option for fed side, the species is not the faction


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