Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 169
# 21
08-29-2013, 06:43 PM
I really enjoy my Mirror Vo'quv. I'm almost always the top DPS in PUG ESTFs, and occasionally the top DPS in Fleet ESTFs.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,268
# 22
08-29-2013, 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warmaker001b View Post
For faction specific carriers, the KDF has 2, which is 1 more better than the Feds, 3 if you count the Mirror Vo'Quv.

The Feds have the Atrox.

To top it off, KDF has better hangar unit selection. In terms of anything carrier related, since the KDF was the original and only carrier faction in the game for a long time, we are in a very good spot.
However, that's slightly misleading. You're not taking into consideration carrier hybrids. The Federation has the Vesta and the Armitage to cover that part, while the KDF has the Marauder/Corsair (they're very similar ships, shouldn't have made them different to begin with. . .except Cryptic wanted to force KDF players to pay 4 Fleet modules for a ship that is really not that great compared to the full carriers).

So, by that measure the KDF has 3-4 (I don't personally count the Mirror Vo'Quv, if you count that you'd have to count the Fleet versions of the ships as well) faction-specific carrier/carrier hybrid models, while the Federation has 3.

I wouldn't say the Federation suffers too badly in the hangar unit department. Granted, they don't have the same potential for raw firepower, but they do have a good selection of support craft and debuffers.
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Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 450
# 23
08-29-2013, 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timezarg View Post
However, that's slightly misleading. You're not taking into consideration carrier hybrids. The Federation has the Vesta and the Armitage to cover that part, while the KDF has the Marauder/Corsair (they're very similar ships, shouldn't have made them different to begin with. . .except Cryptic wanted to force KDF players to pay 4 Fleet modules for a ship that is really not that great compared to the full carriers).

So, by that measure the KDF has 3-4 (I don't personally count the Mirror Vo'Quv, if you count that you'd have to count the Fleet versions of the ships as well) faction-specific carrier/carrier hybrid models, while the Federation has 3.

I wouldn't say the Federation suffers too badly in the hangar unit department. Granted, they don't have the same potential for raw firepower, but they do have a good selection of support craft and debuffers.
And that's why the Scorpion's are so popular for one or both hangar slots. They even have Scorpions that can go in your device slot. It really does seem to be the unofficial benchmark.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 122
# 24
08-29-2013, 08:18 PM
You'd think they'd be Engineer heavy, more than anything.

I'd love to be able to use the Battlestar Galactica strategy. Use the big boy to take all the heat (while using it to deliver some damage too), while using the fighters to do the true damage.

You could also have a repair pet, that can be used on team mates. Put a ship like this on C-Store, and Cryptic are bound to bring in some money.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,250
# 25
08-29-2013, 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
Whats wrong with the Fleet Vo'Quv? You seem to like the regular version if you consider it one of the best. Somehow upgrading its hull, shields and an extra console is bad?

I think the ship can be pretty op in pvp, especially if you catch someone in a 1v1 situation, there is almost no way to beat it.
Let me Rephrase:

For what you have to go through to get the Fleet Vo'Quv, the end results are quite underwhelming.

The Fleet Vo'Quv is just a slight improvement over the standard Vo'Quv IMO and add to the Fact that you have to max out part of your Star Base just to get it and makes it feel even less fulfilling to me.

I think that the Fleet Vo'Quv would have been much better if it was given an extra Tactical Console slot instead of the engineering slot and I also would have like to see it given and universal ensign Boff Station.

The Fleet Vo'Quv is a T3 Star Base unlock at best but again just my Opinion.

There's really nothing wrong with the Fleet Vo'Quv; However, I was expecting more for what it takes to get it.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,005
# 26
08-29-2013, 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by erei1 View Post
And all of them are sci oriented ship. The atrox is sci oriented, the Armitage is an escort (tac). Even the Scimitar is tac oriented.
And despite being "sci oriented" KDF carrier performance in PVE & PVP, in the hands of a decent player, has never been questioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timezarg View Post
However, that's slightly misleading. You're not taking into consideration carrier hybrids. The Federation has the Vesta and the Armitage to cover that part, while the KDF has the Marauder/Corsair (they're very similar ships, shouldn't have made them different to begin with. . .except Cryptic wanted to force KDF players to pay 4 Fleet modules for a ship that is really not that great compared to the full carriers).

So, by that measure the KDF has 3-4 (I don't personally count the Mirror Vo'Quv, if you count that you'd have to count the Fleet versions of the ships as well) faction-specific carrier/carrier hybrid models, while the Federation has 3.

I wouldn't say the Federation suffers too badly in the hangar unit department. Granted, they don't have the same potential for raw firepower, but they do have a good selection of support craft and debuffers.
I don't count single-hangared ships as carriers. The real carriers are the 2-hangared ones. Single-hangared ones are for those that want to dabble but never really want to delve into what a carrier is all about; They're not serious into carrier play at all and absolutely refuse to delve outside the realms of the Escort / Cruiser. The single-hangar is more of a "oh, that's nice to have" detail on those ships, and never meant as a feature, something that the ship's power is based on.

For me, in terms of carrier play, a single-hangared ship is like a 2 forward / 2 aft weapon ship masquerading as a T5 Escort with 2 TAC Consoles. Single hangars cannot fully exploit the full capability of hangar units. The actions of a single squadron of fighters and frigates pale in comparison to 2 full hangars worth of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by errab View Post
Let me Rephrase:

For what you have to go through to get the Fleet Vo'Quv, the end results are quite underwhelming.

The Fleet Vo'Quv is just a slight improvement over the standard Vo'Quv IMO and add to the Fact that you have to max out part of your Star Base just to get it and makes it feel even less fulfilling to me.

I think that the Fleet Vo'Quv would have been much better if it was given an extra Tactical Console slot instead of the engineering slot and I also would have like to see it given and universal ensign Boff Station.

The Fleet Vo'Quv is a T3 Star Base unlock at best but again just my Opinion.

There's really nothing wrong with the Fleet Vo'Quv; However, I was expecting more for what it takes to get it.
Yeah, for the KDF T5 Starbase ships are underwhelming, unlike the T5 Fed equivalents. The other insulting part of the Fleet Vo'Quv is that it requires 4 FSMs.

For such a high tiered ship in the system, for the cost of just buying it, the stats of the Fleet Vo'Quv are "meh" at best. This is in complete contrast to the Fleet Sovereign, widely considered a beast of a ship, and costing 1 FSM instead of 4 if you have the Regent.

BUT... at least the Fleet Vo'Quv is still better than the Fleet B'Rel. What a joke that ship is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emarosa26 View Post
You'd think they'd be Engineer heavy, more than anything.

I'd love to be able to use the Battlestar Galactica strategy. Use the big boy to take all the heat (while using it to deliver some damage too), while using the fighters to do the true damage.

You could also have a repair pet, that can be used on team mates. Put a ship like this on C-Store, and Cryptic are bound to bring in some money.
These "sci heavy" carriers CAN take the heat of heavy pounding in combat. I've taken my Kar'Fi and survived quite a pounding from 2-3 Fed players long enough (and distracting them) until fellow KDF players arrive and come out of cloak to wipe the floor with them. And the Kar'Fi only has a Lt ENG BOFF station, 2 ENG Consoles.

The key is the player and how the ship is built and setup. With Energy Siphon 3 + Full Breen Set + Maxed Flow Capacitors + Breen Set free Breen Energy Dissipation ability, my Kar'Fi had ridiculous power levels for most of combat. So high that the Breen Shields that people like to make fun of, and in combination with EPTS 1 & 2, were holding up very well, and the ship still dishing out punishment (LOL with Target Subsystem Shields 3 or Engines 2 when they shut the systems down).

Last edited by warmaker001b; 08-29-2013 at 09:32 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,268
# 27
08-30-2013, 04:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by errab View Post
Let me Rephrase:

For what you have to go through to get the Fleet Vo'Quv, the end results are quite underwhelming.

The Fleet Vo'Quv is just a slight improvement over the standard Vo'Quv IMO and add to the Fact that you have to max out part of your Star Base just to get it and makes it feel even less fulfilling to me.

I think that the Fleet Vo'Quv would have been much better if it was given an extra Tactical Console slot instead of the engineering slot and I also would have like to see it given and universal ensign Boff Station.

The Fleet Vo'Quv is a T3 Star Base unlock at best but again just my Opinion.

There's really nothing wrong with the Fleet Vo'Quv; However, I was expecting more for what it takes to get it.
You don't say. KDF BoP pilots felt exactly the same with the blasted Fleet B'rel Retrofit. It got a boost to shield mod (meaningless as any half-wit player would keep the thing in cloak all the time), a 2k boost to hull (grand total of 24,750 - still very low and vulnerable), and a 4th eng console (the only addition that actually meant something, and it's still just an eng console). Talk about underwhelming, for a bloody Tier 5 starbase ship. On top of that, they had the effrontery to charge 5 friggin fleet modules for it, so the 'discounted' price is - I think - two fleet modules.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,268
# 28
08-30-2013, 04:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warmaker001b View Post
I don't count single-hangared ships as carriers. The real carriers are the 2-hangared ones. Single-hangared ones are for those that want to dabble but never really want to delve into what a carrier is all about; They're not serious into carrier play at all and absolutely refuse to delve outside the realms of the Escort / Cruiser. The single-hangar is more of a "oh, that's nice to have" detail on those ships, and never meant as a feature, something that the ship's power is based on.

For me, in terms of carrier play, a single-hangared ship is like a 2 forward / 2 aft weapon ship masquerading as a T5 Escort with 2 TAC Consoles. Single hangars cannot fully exploit the full capability of hangar units. The actions of a single squadron of fighters and frigates pale in comparison to 2 full hangars worth of them.



Yeah, for the KDF T5 Starbase ships are underwhelming, unlike the T5 Fed equivalents. The other insulting part of the Fleet Vo'Quv is that it requires 4 FSMs.

For such a high tiered ship in the system, for the cost of just buying it, the stats of the Fleet Vo'Quv are "meh" at best. This is in complete contrast to the Fleet Sovereign, widely considered a beast of a ship, and costing 1 FSM instead of 4 if you have the Regent.

BUT... at least the Fleet Vo'Quv is still better than the Fleet B'Rel. What a joke that ship is.
I disagree with your characterization of the hybrid carriers, largely because I've been at the business end of the things in my BoP in PvP. Just a single hangar of Yellowstones can make a notable difference with the tractor beams, etc. Guess it depends on how you view it. I'd say the Armitage combines the maneuverability and firepower of an escort with the support of the pets, for example.

And yeah, the Fleet B'rel Retrofit is an insult, a slap in the face of the KDF faction, and Cryptic knows it. 5 FSMs for that POS, at Tier 5 too.
tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 933
# 29
08-30-2013, 04:55 AM
Carriers should support their pets, not do most of the damage themselves.

And science simply is the best choice for support, with their control abilities.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,268
# 30
08-30-2013, 05:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by errab View Post
I think that the Fleet Vo'Quv would have been much better if it was given an extra Tactical Console slot instead of the engineering slot and I also would have like to see it given and universal ensign Boff Station.
Its still a 3/3 ship and a extra tactical console would not do much, the ship primary purpose is to tank and what universal ensign? the ship doesnt have a ensign station to begin with, the BO layout is very good with a Lt cmdr or a cmdr station in all 3 areas, the only thing that could been made uni was the Lt ... so unless you want a Lt Tac, Lt Cmdr Eng, Cmdr and Lt Sci and a uni ensign that WOULD be a downgrade ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by warmaker001b View Post
Yeah, for the KDF T5 Starbase ships are underwhelming, unlike the T5 Fed equivalents. The other insulting part of the Fleet Vo'Quv is that it requires 4 FSMs.
I am sorry but what are you complaining about?

Fleet Ships either cost 4 Fleet Modules or 5 Fleet Modules if ithey have a build-in ability (B'rel and Excelsior), the Vo'Quv costs 4 Fleet modules because its a free ship, what you are offering is a loaded argument that convenient ignores a fact and goes on a tirade about something without actually saying the actual issue, that is the lack of C-Shop T5 KDF ships and the lack of Fleet versions of said ships, sure there are plently of Fed ships with a Fleet Module discount because most Fed ships are C-Shop anyway but if I want a Fleet Nova I have to pay 4 modules for it, no way around it since its too low tier and so the Rhode Island offers no discount and the only comparable ship would be the Luna class that doesnt have a Fleet version and its a free ship so no discount would ever be applied if it existed as a Fleet ship.
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