Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 966
# 1 Federation Maximum Drain Build
08-29-2013, 12:31 AM
The relationship between Flow Capacitors and various drain abilities & resists have not been thoroughly studied nor tested in quite some time. Some of the most commonly used charts that compiled the various effects of skill points in various captain skills contain outdated information and results regarding Flow Capacitor skills. It is also unclear whether Science skills suffer from significant diminished returns as they go above 100, like hull damage resist and many other skills do. To tackle these issues, I am using a variation to the Pure Science build to test the effects of Flow Capacitors in both PvE and PvP.

To begin, here is the prototype : Flow Capacitors skill = 286 The 4 Flow Capacitor Consoles are Embassy Mk XII : 2 X Plasma Infused, 1 X Hull Repair, 1 X Shield Emitter, each providing +31.9 Flow Capacitors skill. It is possible for the FC skill to exceed 300 on this vessel when the Inspirational Leader trait proc, and we are going to see that Flow Capacitors skill does not suffer from diminished returns.

Skills & Abilities tested : Energy Siphon III (ES III) , Innate Ship Subsystem Targeting (SST), Plasomonic Leech (PL), Tetryon proc (Tet), Tachyon Beam II (Tach II), Tractor Beam shield drain (TB)

Here are the results, from 0 consoles used up to 4 consoles :

1) Flow Capacitors console used = 0 ; FC = 159

ES III = 38.8 SST = 43.1 PL = 2.6 Tet = 632.8 X 4 Tach II = 510 X 4 TB = 188.7 X 4

2) Flow Capacitors console used = 1 ; FC = 191

ES III = 43.6 SST = 46.9 PL = 2.9 Tet = 689.1 X 4 Tach II = 572.7 X 4 TB = 212 X 4

3) Flow Capacitors console used = 2 ; FC = 223

ES III = 48.4 SST = 50.7 PL = 3.2 Tet = 745.3 X 4 Tach II = 635.4 X 4 TB = 235.2 X 4

4) Flow Capacitors console used = 3 ; FC = 255

ES III = 53.2 SST = 54.5 PL = 3.5 Tet = 801.5 X 4 Tach II = 698.2 X 4 TB = 258.4 X 4

5) Flow Capacitors console used = 4 ; FC = 286

ES III = 58.0 SST = 58.4 PL = 3.9 Tet = 857.7 X 4 Tach II = 761 X 4 TB = 281.7 X 4

6) Flow Capacitors console used = 4 + Quantum Manipulation ; FC = 386

ES III = 73.0 SST = 70.4 PL = 4.9 Tet = 1034 X 4 Tach II = 957.8 X 4 TB = 354.5 X 4


As you can see, Flow Capacitors skill does not suffer any diminished returns. With Quantum Manipulation and Inspirational Leader trait proc X 3, it possible to have total Flow Capacitors skill exceeding 416%. Under this scenario, the combination of ES III + Subsystem Targeting + Plasmonic Leech can drain greater than 200 power per subsystem!!! No amount of Power Insulation can protect against that kind of massive drain. And this is achieved without the use of any Klingon cheats such as Aceton Assimilators or Siphon Drones.

In practice however, Quantum Manipulation can only be used once every 10 minutes and the Inspirational Leader trait is unpredictable. So we will stick with 5) Flow Capacitor Skill = 286% and see how that goes.


PvE Field Test Subject : Borg Tactical Cube boss in Infected Conduit (Elite) STF

View I : Tactical Cube Hull = 91%, Shields are almost all gone

Notice how the entire team approacheed the Tactical Cube from east, as you can see weapons fire focusing on the east side of the Borg. Yet, the only shield facing standing is its north side, even though the fight was early and the Tactical Cube still had over 91% of its hull intact. At this point, the Tactical Cube still carried quite a punch, as you can see, Everlast is trying to hang on.

View II : Tactical Cube Hull = 64%

The Tactical Cube is being drained down to a halt, losing all its fighting capabilities. Pretty much the entire Team's hull is at 100% and only 1 person out of 5 had shield damages, the other 4 including myself are just shooting at a disabled junk in space.

View III : Tactical cube Hull = 16%, Shields completely gone

The Borg has no shields at all and can't seem to regenerate any. All 5 teams members have full shields and intact hull but one who has very minor hull loss likely due to plasma dot. Never seen the Tactical Cube in Infected Conduit (Elite) so passive before. At this point, the Tactical Cube is near total disabled. Throughout the whole minute, the Tactical Cube was unable to take any shots at me even though I was parked at less than 5 KM from it and actively tractoring it.


In Kerrat, the regular Cubes have their shields drained completely on all sides within 10 seconds. The effect on Klingons were quite crippling but less obvious and require more testing since many of them have become master runners and hiders - run at first sign of trouble. Against Romulans, the drain is especially effective due to their lower power level from Singularity Core. The combination of ES III + SST drains 116 in Power. Romulans usually allocate most of their power to Weapons, leaving the average power level in Shields, Engines and Auxiliary around 50 - 60. Even assuming they have 9 points in Power Insulation, therefore 50% resist to drain, the ES III + SST combo drains about 50 - 60 in the targeted subsystem, say Auxiliary, which will knock out their battlecloaks. Once you factor in the effect of Plasomonic Leech, that's another -40 power to each of the subsystem, discounted at 50% = -20 power to each subsystem. In order not to be knock out, the Romulans will need to have at least 70-80 power in Shields, Engines or Auxiliary. Even when their shields have EPtS in effect, the added power from EPtS averaged around 20 or so, which means their shield power level should be about 75 +/-, their shields run great risk of being knocked out completely despite having EPtS.

There are ways to play around with this build and perhaps using a different Science vessel. I welcome any feedback, comments or questions.

Last edited by iskandus; 08-29-2013 at 12:37 AM. Reason: typos
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,125
# 2
08-29-2013, 12:48 AM
what the tool tip says and what a target player feel are 2 different things.
if drain builds where as potent as you say we would see it ingame since anyone going near pvp would be running an insulator console to attempt to avoid beeing bled dry in combat.

and as it stands, mk 12 vr insulator consoles are only 230k
as it turns out, an intrepid would lose a fight with a connie.
and thats canon.
! the power of plot compels you.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,026
# 3
08-29-2013, 12:58 AM
So what is the point of this thread? "Sci abilities can get silly when the skills get excessively stacked." That was already known.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 150
# 4
08-29-2013, 02:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
what the tool tip says and what a target player feel are 2 different things.
if drain builds where as potent as you say we would see it ingame since anyone going near pvp would be running an insulator console to attempt to avoid beeing bled dry in combat.

and as it stands, mk 12 vr insulator consoles are only 230k
The problem with this statement is that it assumes that people think about anything other than high dps and key survivability skills - and most people don't because frankly you don't need to for any of the content.

I came up against a guy in Ker'rat yesterday running a drain-heavy tetryon loadout, and the first encounter I got pummeled (and I've got a very durable build). After that I adjusted my strategy and it was more of a stand-off, but the guy was shield-stripping & power-draining me faster and harder than a frustrated middle-aged housewife tears the clothes off and bangs the hot young pool-boy.

I felt kind of violated.....
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,125
# 5
08-29-2013, 02:46 AM
Quote:
key survivability skills
said it yourself.

by only considering dakka in their builds they are deliberately and knowingly choosing to ignore defence against drain.

its not the fault of the drain build that the average players build is so one dimensional.

but i do agree, the content doesnt push this aspect enough, running into the breen would be an excellent wake up call for people ignoring drain attacks.
as it turns out, an intrepid would lose a fight with a connie.
and thats canon.
! the power of plot compels you.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,137
# 6
08-29-2013, 04:03 AM
Just want to say thank you for testing this out and writing it up. I've had some suspicions with my tinkering with flow capacitors and shield stripping builds, but it's nice to see what a full-blown drain-ship can actually accomplish.

(Also, don't discount the Orion Interceptors on the KDF side. I've had a single interceptor wing stop Cure Space birds of prey in their tracks by themselves with just their weapon/engine drain beam. It's a lot more powerful than I think most people realize.)
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,866
# 7
08-29-2013, 04:09 AM
Neat. I might have a couple characters that have optimal builds for this.


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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,841
# 8
08-29-2013, 04:22 AM
@iskandus: you have your build on sto-academy?
I am a visual guy and totally interested.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,146
# 9
08-29-2013, 07:00 AM
First off, thanks for the hard numbers, that kind of data is always useful. I would also say that this is a good example of why we need hard caps on skill points and modifiers.

Your borg test is not particularly useful--I see the same kind of results with a set of phased polarons with far less skill points, and since we are unable to monitor enemy power levels then we have no way to see the practical difference if any. I assume there is one, but no way to measure so no way to know.

There are a couple of problems with it in PVP. First is that the 2.5% chance to drain requires you to hit the target, and sometimes they wont let you do it (eg, group focus-fire, spike alpha, staying in your aft quadrant, etc). Also, 100 points in Power Insulators will cut the drain rate in half, which means that if you run across somebody with 6 bars of PI and a couple of consoles, your drain build loses half of its potential, and more PI reduces the effect further. This is why a lot of people just dont mess with it. In practical terms its a very good thing for a sci to carry, but it has to be considered that you are only going to be cutting some of the enemy's power some of the time. Its good to have, but it should not be the primary attack mechanism.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,459
# 10
08-29-2013, 07:14 AM
I'd like to recommend the polarized disrupter weapons for added awesome sauce. Flow Caps effect the drain and the disrupter proc will boost the entire teams damage.

That said, I'm sure meimito (i totally butchered her name, sorry), her sig is "Keira, the girl who kept through time," is the forum expert on drain builds. I'm sure she'll have much insight into this

Grats on the destroyer
Chive on and prosper

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