Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 674
# 91
09-07-2013, 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainforfun View Post
I don't know if you red the notes for the change, but they clearly say that they will reduce the dmg improvement that particle generators or high aux is doing...

They improved the base dmg, but reduced the boost gw gets from teh particle generator skill.

They notes for the changes even mention that at high aux and high skill lvl in particle generators it is basically less then now, cause of the lower scaling...

So maybe you should wait with the party till the change hits holodeck...

...well thats dissapointing in some regards, rereading the notes (I think I may have missed a page earlier due to refreshing without looking if it moved up a page)

...looking at whats been put down on paper; it seems that this may turn out to be a inadvertant nerf to running high spec grav well builds but a general buff to running them 'fresh out the box' so to speak

Still, I'll gladly give up a bit of damage if the darn grav well can hold -something- like its supposed to! (might even be able to toss some more power to my engines, which would be nice)


..speaking of which, if the radius is going to be enlarged, does that mean the damage related aoe will too? huge grav wells sound neat, but if it can't hold properly and those it somehow held for even a moment get zero damage despite being in its grasp, it rather defeats the grav wells purpose in my opinion
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 92
09-07-2013, 02:07 PM
Awesome! Another SCIENCE power that'll be better in the hands of a TACTICAL captain.


Good work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 200
# 93
09-07-2013, 03:03 PM
To be more specific, Gravity Well 2 and 3 will benefit from Aux power and Graviton Generators skill now -- previously they didn't. The amount that they benefit, though, is being reined in from what it would have been if the powers weren't bugged.

In testing, just making GW2 & 3 benefit from Aux and GravGen allowed a science ship with 135 Aux and 150 GravGen to use GW3 against a group of five frigates and snare and destroy all of them. This is a bit over the top.

Borticus has been tweaking the formulae so that the power will be useful, and you will see improvements in your Gravity Wells from increasing Aux or GravGen, but it won't be over the top.

All other stats being equal, GW2 & 3 will be more powerful than GW1.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 149
# 94
09-07-2013, 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by burstorion View Post
...well thats dissapointing in some regards, rereading the notes (I think I may have missed a page earlier due to refreshing without looking if it moved up a page)

...looking at whats been put down on paper; it seems that this may turn out to be a inadvertant nerf to running high spec grav well builds but a general buff to running them 'fresh out the box' so to speak

Still, I'll gladly give up a bit of damage if the darn grav well can hold -something- like its supposed to! (might even be able to toss some more power to my engines, which would be nice)


..speaking of which, if the radius is going to be enlarged, does that mean the damage related aoe will too? huge grav wells sound neat, but if it can't hold properly and those it somehow held for even a moment get zero damage despite being in its grasp, it rather defeats the grav wells purpose in my opinion
IT should be, the target should get dmg until it leaves the area of effect of the grav well. And maybe we are lucky and the hold will really hold something then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
Awesome! Another SCIENCE power that'll be better in the hands of a TACTICAL captain.


Good work.
That is a general problem cause of the tacs resistence debuffs. That is something a sci doesn?t have. Except sensor scan, which has a way to long cooldown to be as effective as the resistence debuffs from a tac. Basically a sci would need a add dmg debuff with a shorter cooldown.

The sci ships sensor analysis isn't working for that, cause it is a ship ability and it only affects the ships weapons anyways, not to mention that it builds up way to slow to be effective and you losse the stack as soon as you have to switch targets for a moment.

ta
Reynolds / Thokal

U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class / R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer
U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
TheWiseGuys
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 149
# 95
09-07-2013, 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jheinig View Post
To be more specific, Gravity Well 2 and 3 will benefit from Aux power and Graviton Generators skill now -- previously they didn't. The amount that they benefit, though, is being reined in from what it would have been if the powers weren't bugged.

In testing, just making GW2 & 3 benefit from Aux and GravGen allowed a science ship with 135 Aux and 150 GravGen to use GW3 against a group of five frigates and snare and destroy all of them. This is a bit over the top.

Borticus has been tweaking the formulae so that the power will be useful, and you will see improvements in your Gravity Wells from increasing Aux or GravGen, but it won't be over the top.

All other stats being equal, GW2 & 3 will be more powerful than GW1.
How do i get 135 Aux? Thought 130 was the limit even with the new Warpcores.

Btw. would be nice if you look at the Fleet Cores, the Names do not match the description in therms which Pwoersystem benefits from which.

And the depending the dmg Gravity well does, The issue are the bigger targets, not the small ones...

So is there any chance that you are making tachyon beam, charged particle burst and the other drain skills useful again? Cause atm they are a joke against npc and other ppl that have skilled a bit in power insulators.

And before i forget it, why is it ok for a tac to kill a bunch of frigates in one sweep and not for a sci? Not to mention that a tac can do that with bigger targets and can redo it way faster then a sci could.
Reynolds / Thokal

U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class / R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer
U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
TheWiseGuys

Last edited by captainforfun; 09-07-2013 at 03:32 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,220
# 96
09-07-2013, 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jheinig View Post
is being reined in from what it would have been if the powers weren't bugged.
That's all I needed to hear.

Thanks!
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!

Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Lieutenant
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 73
# 97
09-07-2013, 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jheinig View Post
To be more specific, Gravity Well 2 and 3 will benefit from Aux power and Graviton Generators skill now -- previously they didn't. The amount that they benefit, though, is being reined in from what it would have been if the powers weren't bugged.

In testing, just making GW2 & 3 benefit from Aux and GravGen allowed a science ship with 135 Aux and 150 GravGen to use GW3 against a group of five frigates and snare and destroy all of them. This is a bit over the top.

Borticus has been tweaking the formulae so that the power will be useful, and you will see improvements in your Gravity Wells from increasing Aux or GravGen, but it won't be over the top.

All other stats being equal, GW2 & 3 will be more powerful than GW1.
So killing five small ships that are sitting perfectly still and using no heals... once every minute.... is over powered?

I appreciate the feedback in the thread and the quick response, but could you explain why the dev team is terrified of science skills with teeth? To get high aux and a large number of points in particle requires sacrificing a lot (weapon power, flying a science ship and using those science slots for actual science and not free space for universal consoles). Surely that's worth being able to lay down some damage? Especially when the effect has half a dozen counters?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,220
# 98
09-07-2013, 03:58 PM
Actually, one more thing crossed my mind...

Is there any chance that Tyken's Rift is suffering from a similar fate? Currently it has been quite... bad. Simply no other word for it. Just plain old bad.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!

Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 91
# 99
09-07-2013, 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by molaigh View Post
So killing five small ships that are sitting perfectly still and using no heals... once every minute.... is over powered?

I appreciate the feedback in the thread and the quick response, but could you explain why the dev team is terrified of science skills with teeth? To get high aux and a large number of points in particle requires sacrificing a lot (weapon power, flying a science ship and using those science slots for actual science and not free space for universal consoles). Surely that's worth being able to lay down some damage? Especially when the effect has half a dozen counters?
At this point we might as well give up. After 3 years, if it isn't a high speed escort with cannons, then it isn't allowed to be a viable threat. Every single threatening Science build we have found has been systematically nerfed. So asking for them to actually restore Grav well back to being a threat is just a waste of breath.

Yes it would be wonderful if a sci captain in a sci ship who has put the work and skillpoints into it should be able to use commander lvl sci powers and be just as much of a threat as an escort doing the same. But it will never be allowed. And every time we find a way to do it it will be nerfed.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,087
# 100
09-07-2013, 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jheinig View Post
To be more specific, Gravity Well 2 and 3 will benefit from Aux power and Graviton Generators skill now -- previously they didn't. The amount that they benefit, though, is being reined in from what it would have been if the powers weren't bugged.

In testing, just making GW2 & 3 benefit from Aux and GravGen allowed a science ship with 135 Aux and 150 GravGen to use GW3 against a group of five frigates and snare and destroy all of them. This is a bit over the top.

Borticus has been tweaking the formulae so that the power will be useful, and you will see improvements in your Gravity Wells from increasing Aux or GravGen, but it won't be over the top.

All other stats being equal, GW2 & 3 will be more powerful than GW1.

You do realize I can do that with CSV and FAW already right? Argh.

This is why Sci will always be subpar especially in PvE this perspective by the system team. Oh no we cannot let the science abilities drain an NPC's subsystem power because then the encounter is too easy, nevermind the fact anyone can borderline AFK solo the target anyway. Oh noes a single power when a ship is geared to the teeth to augment that takes a Cmdr boff slot with a one minute cooldown might be able to kill 5 NPC frigates by itself, can't let that happen!

Yet I can FaW/TS an APB on them and watch the warp plasma destroy them. Because APB is one of the best damage increasing abilities for anything using exotic damage for some strange reason. Oh wait those are battleship NPCs not frigates I do that to.....

Gah, ranty but this mentality annoys me greatly.
STO's F2P is basically an inferior experience for the masses at no cost being subsidized by a handful of whales seeking whatever it is that motivates them to spend hundreds if not thousands on a game.

Last edited by bareel; 09-07-2013 at 04:15 PM.
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