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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 281
09-21-2013, 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
Engies are always left out. It's a fact of the game.
They're the only class with future C4s...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
What should I wish upon the endless universe;
To be able to smile and forgive everything;
That's right, if we light up the dream in our hearts without averting our eyes;
We should be able to walk whatever tomorrow comes...

I am V. Adm. Kha Yuung, and I approve of this message.
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 523
# 282
09-21-2013, 09:30 PM
This has certainly been an eye opener of a thread.

For years I played only tac but recently I've placed heavy investment into sci. I'll admit I'm a bit of a pup and have not begun to truely reach the dedicated heights some of these players have been posting in regards to skill/console and additional augments through doffs.

I will say that I'm vastly underwhelmed. I have faced incredible sci opponents in PVP which inspired me to invest in my 2 sci captains and to that effect I aspired higher but I feel the all too common pain being shared in this thread.

I've reached incredible DPS standards on my tac and although I felt the lack of DPS in a SCI build, I'm finding little that compensates for its gross lacking in most other fields. To be honest it's rather disconcerting.

I was about to place my sci on a back burner and hope that a live update might invigorate my wanton efforts again until I read this thread.


I'll say this though, if I am to sacrifice DPS I expect returns in SCI skills that are meaningfully entertaining at least. This is coming from someone who can put down a tac cube by himself in a tier III tactical escort retrofit WITH tanking survivability sufficient to get the job done.

My SCI toon for all of my creative augmenting would have to run away from said cube numerous times while incessantly trying to lick shielding, drain its power AND popping GWIII.


...AND coming from said tac captain...

It isn't fair for SCI captains to be swept so far under the rug. I've never even touched or created ENGI so I can only imagine the horror.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,360
# 283
09-22-2013, 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by khayuung View Post
They're the only class with future C4s...
I expect that to be put in a lockbox or DOFF soon (for tacs only of course). Can't be letting engies keep any purpose now, can we?

Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,309
# 284
09-22-2013, 01:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by khayuung View Post
They're the only class with future C4s...
Engineers on the ground are absolutely beast with said bombs, too. Especially in ground ESTFs or Defera.

Hell, mine has even one shot the predator in the Elachi ground instance a couple of times. Mines are no joke when placed right.
Vice Admiral Rylana - U.S.S. DNT Omega X || Vice Admiral Lyzara - I.R.W. DNT Omicron X
Vice Admiral Kailiana - R.R.W. DNT Theta X || Vice Admiral Talina - I.R.W. DNT Tau X
Vice Admiral Victoria - U.S.S. DNT Upsilon X || Lt. General Dannika - I.K.S. DNT Sigma X
Vice Admiral Shondra - R.R.W. DNT Alpha X || Lt. General Rosanna - I.K.S. DNT Iota X
=== Vice Squad/House of Tlhap-Jen ===
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 285
09-22-2013, 03:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kortaag View Post
This has certainly been an eye opener of a thread.

For years I played only tac but recently I've placed heavy investment into sci. I'll admit I'm a bit of a pup and have not begun to truely reach the dedicated heights some of these players have been posting in regards to skill/console and additional augments through doffs.

I will say that I'm vastly underwhelmed. I have faced incredible sci opponents in PVP which inspired me to invest in my 2 sci captains and to that effect I aspired higher but I feel the all too common pain being shared in this thread.

I've reached incredible DPS standards on my tac and although I felt the lack of DPS in a SCI build, I'm finding little that compensates for its gross lacking in most other fields. To be honest it's rather disconcerting.

I was about to place my sci on a back burner and hope that a live update might invigorate my wanton efforts again until I read this thread.


I'll say this though, if I am to sacrifice DPS I expect returns in SCI skills that are meaningfully entertaining at least. This is coming from someone who can put down a tac cube by himself in a tier III tactical escort retrofit WITH tanking survivability sufficient to get the job done.

My SCI toon for all of my creative augmenting would have to run away from said cube numerous times while incessantly trying to lick shielding, drain its power AND popping GWIII.


...AND coming from said tac captain...

It isn't fair for SCI captains to be swept so far under the rug. I've never even touched or created ENGI so I can only imagine the horror.
I think it's worth mentioning that if you want CC on your escorts you can either use something like the Fleet Advanced Escort (FAE), mobius or some other concoction. If you don't fancy giving up the Lt.Commander tactical you can always fit a chronitron torp with torp spread. Too much effort?

Well we have just the consoles for you! Gravitron pulse, theta radiation and if you get in a hairy spot we even have scrambl...I mean Antimatter Spread.

You want MES, PSW and a way to enhance stealth sight on the fly without investment or to give up much? Well we got those consoles too, have at them with Photonic Displacement, *New and improved!* Nadeon detonater and Tachyon detection field!

We even made the bridge officer versions underperform so you don't feel like you're not the best thing in the universe. EVER!

Alright *switches sarcasm off* it's slightly exaggerated but not by much. When you do compare what an escort gives up for that CC you see that it's an even trade off. So what do I get for switching from my commander and Lt.Comm tactical to science?

I can get a GW that will do 4k per tick if I buff it...but my CSV from one cannon does more with the same buffing than that over the duration of the GW and then some as it has higher uptime. Ah but it's about the CC. True enough but CC is irrelevant when you can either travel as fast as the enemies, hunt them down and kill them faster.

What about PSW? That can do respectable damage to hull. Yes it can...but er, how are you to get TO the hull first? You need to use at least 2 drains to get to the hull of even the lowliest of probes in KASE. CPB3 does 2600 shield damage in an AoE which is also not enough. I could pew pew them with my energy weapons on 70 power because I keep full aux most of the time. Then why not just start pumping energy weapons and finish it off with a torp as a torp spread does more damage than a PSW. Also doesn't scatter them. What's that a 4s disable? Sure, nice, but if you can't capitalise on that 4s it might as well not exist.

Just about the only thing doing well at the moment is energy syphon. Everything else is underperforming when you compare it to tactical abilities and engineering. (I would argue some of their more offensive abilities need a look at too.)

Considering the ludicrously high levels you can buff damage in this game isn't it time science had the collar removed and be allowed to rip ships in two if they're dumb enough to stay in a GW or not pack the 1001 counters to every sci ability we have?

Or maybe we should be reigning in the damage buffs. I'm not even talking about sci abilities either, look at EWP, DEM and did you know aceton beam is supposed to punish people for using energy weapons when affected by it? No? Well it's supposed to. Every single one of these performs better with 1 specific captain. Another captain can buff some of it (but only if the damage is done to hull and bypasses shield) and another can...er....tank something that can't fight back.

Oh I went on for a bit there. I'll be seeing how my tactical does with the GW3.
------
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.

Last edited by bpharma; 09-22-2013 at 04:05 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,309
# 286
09-22-2013, 04:37 AM
Check my test parse in the tribble forum.

They only increased GW3s damage by about 10 percent.

=/

I know im not all out specced into it at only 174 particle, but if its that low at 174, its not going to be outstanding at 250+ either.
Vice Admiral Rylana - U.S.S. DNT Omega X || Vice Admiral Lyzara - I.R.W. DNT Omicron X
Vice Admiral Kailiana - R.R.W. DNT Theta X || Vice Admiral Talina - I.R.W. DNT Tau X
Vice Admiral Victoria - U.S.S. DNT Upsilon X || Lt. General Dannika - I.K.S. DNT Sigma X
Vice Admiral Shondra - R.R.W. DNT Alpha X || Lt. General Rosanna - I.K.S. DNT Iota X
=== Vice Squad/House of Tlhap-Jen ===
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 523
# 287
09-22-2013, 05:56 AM
Yeah PSW is something I tried to capitalize on at first. I figured it'd clear out spam and hopefully have an impact to disable the larger ships but that flat faced quick as a build. I've had success triggering it in proximity and watching all the fun aftershocks occur but I was gimping myself because its virtually useless.

Then I saw one of the prior comments that said something like go all out sci so I dropped all my tac slots spare the only console that remained with two and went tac team and csv. I've tried some variations but you're right. ES was really the only thing that put a pep in my build's step. I rather enjoy seeing all my power levels skyrocket and that was on ES II so now I'm thinking ES III, ES II on opposing stations, TB II/1 as main an throwing nothing but flow capacitor into those console layouts and see if I can't augment a better result.

Painful woes of trial and error with gimped skills is just not fun



Oh.. And I'd like to add that shield repair units are bugged. They do not behave correctly at all. My danube runabouts can score 5 stars of service 200% faster and don't melt like snow balls in the heat of battle. Their benefits are extremely negligible at best and even when they do manage to make it to a fifth star they barely have any impact on shield health. Please fix these too @ dev.

Last edited by kortaag; 09-22-2013 at 06:00 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,331
# 288
09-22-2013, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kortaag View Post
Yeah PSW is something I tried to capitalize on at first. I figured it'd clear out spam and hopefully have an impact to disable the larger ships but that flat faced quick as a build. I've had success triggering it in proximity and watching all the fun aftershocks occur but I was gimping myself because its virtually useless.

Then I saw one of the prior comments that said something like go all out sci so I dropped all my tac slots spare the only console that remained with two and went tac team and csv. I've tried some variations but you're right. ES was really the only thing that put a pep in my build's step. I rather enjoy seeing all my power levels skyrocket and that was on ES II so now I'm thinking ES III, ES II on opposing stations, TB II/1 as main an throwing nothing but flow capacitor into those console layouts and see if I can't augment a better result.

Painful woes of trial and error with gimped skills is just not fun



Oh.. And I'd like to add that shield repair units are bugged. They do not behave correctly at all. My danube runabouts can score 5 stars of service 200% faster and don't melt like snow balls in the heat of battle. Their benefits are extremely negligible at best and even when they do manage to make it to a fifth star they barely have any impact on shield health. Please fix these too @ dev.
ESII AND ESIII are great. If GW's fix is a semi nerf, I'll stick with Tyken's Rift which I've read from some people that have used it in Tribble that it's deadly.
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 523
# 289
09-22-2013, 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucho80 View Post
ESII AND ESIII are great. If GW's fix is a semi nerf, I'll stick with Tyken's Rift which I've read from some people that have used it in Tribble that it's deadly.
I'm seeing via proxy that the high end results are coming out negligible. TR does sound rather exciting though.

I'm sure it bugs you too but one thing I was really hoping for was gearing my ship with some versatility. I don't want to exactly over spec something just to make it effective. So perhaps TR will be nice to use.

Then again I don't want a PVP session filled with TR like curtains in a movie theatre.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 290
09-22-2013, 06:28 PM
Which is why I would recommend we do away with current science consoles and have performance based purely on hard skill points invested.

Then replace the current ones that instead increase duration of all science abilities by X% or magnitude of effect by X% or speeds up it's cooldown by X%.

This way you can either stack for higher power but longer CD and shorter duration (better for burst), longer duration (better for CC) or with higher uptime on varied abilities (more variety).

Well to be honest that's not a great idea but the current system where 1 ability is buffed by 2 skills and you really need to pump one of them to get more out of it is rediculous. Instead of getting varied science boats which can handle a number of situations we're getting one dimensional ships that always make us ask:

"Am I really helping to get this mission completed faster or am I holding them back by not being in an escort/A2B cruiser?"

Oh and I would stop any + %dmg from buffing science abilities. Only minus damage resistance would buff them, the idea being to normalize the performance of all captains in science ships and make sure escorts with a Lt'comm science could not outperform science ships at science.
------
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.

Last edited by bpharma; 09-22-2013 at 06:39 PM.
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