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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,540
# 41
09-10-2013, 11:30 AM
well this thread got weird. i detect a biased resistance to a toning down of the EPtE crutch, and the deflecting by saying how powerful EPtS is? thats funny, but transparent guys.

virus outlined nicely what EPtS does for you. and with the current shield power creep reality, its role and value in the shield resistance game has done nothing but diminish. elite shields need a nerf far more then EPtS does.

what does EPtE do? it doubles, and in some cases tripples movement speed. that is insane. there used to be a multitude of things that you had to run to get optimum speed. those things arent even a factor now. you are more then fast enough running 15 engine power and EPtE 1. you dont have to run a hyper engine, borg or the nice KHG combat engine will do with no noticeable speed loss,you dont have to sacrifice any subsystem power to keep your speed up, drastically effecting aux heals or shields resistance and regen. its allowed engine power to be a dump stat, empowering the subsystems around it with 0 drawbacks, because EPtE is accounting for the majority of your movement speed, in place of all the components of speed that used to mater.

and in combat, more then ever you can just push through any sort of hold or slow with it being only a slight annoyance, its near impossible to be stopped dead in your tracks when EPtE is running. its made it a lot harder for low turn rate ships to keep weapons on a target too, it makes an escort without EPtE nearly unable to even engage an escort with EPtE, without a team pulling out all the stops to control a target for him.

the shear level of damage avoidance you get from speeds quite literally never attainable before, is practically battlecloak levels of avoidance. and a faction can stack both quite easily. its never been easier to exploit Z, dive out of someone DHC arc, fly directly at and past your attacker so they only get a single weapons cycle on you, and you can always be close to your healer when you can cover a range of 10 in about 2 seconds.


im real tempted to use EPtW and EPtE on my warbirds these days, 90% of the time im playing my romulan i could totally get away with it, and kill even more reliably. be honest people, we all use and love EPtE, but its grotesquely op. simply nerf its bonus speed magnitude that has a 30 seconds duration in half, or have its bonus speed scale with engine power, so it could mater again what type of engine you run. i dont want what it does removed completely, but it is in a huge need to be toned down.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 09-10-2013 at 11:49 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 573
# 42
09-10-2013, 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
im real tempted to use EPtW and EPtE on my warbirds these days, 90% of the time im playing my romulan i could totally get away with it, and kill even more reliably. be honest people, we all use and love EPtE, but its grotesquely op. simply nerf its bonus speed that last 30 seconds in half, or have its bonus speed scale with engine power, so it could mater again what type of engine you run. i dont want what it does removed completely, but it is in a huge need to be toned down.
i think the 30sec duration is fine, it make epte a reliable skill like EptS. I prefer an small but constant speed buff of 30secodns, than a short burst of speed that will be only used for ships to run and cloak again.
Tune down the speed bonus but leave it with 30seconds effect it will benefit everyone, it will be usefull for escorts, crusier, everything. A short speed burst will only be helpfull for hit and run cloakers, and they already have enough things for run away.

And the idea of EptX powers is the ability of chain them, if u turn the EptE speed buff in a short duration buff it will be very annoying for pilots, imagine yourself firing a CRF and in the middle of it EptE activates and u past over your target by 5km...not fun. I would like be able of fire without putting my ship in reverse all the time lol
John Sheridan@playhard88 - FED Tactical
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)

Last edited by playhard88; 09-10-2013 at 11:42 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,544
# 43
09-10-2013, 11:42 AM
Speed based defense was always capped... what is allowing people to go over that isn't more speed... its more doffs.

No there is nothing thinly vailed at all about my love for EPTE... its fine just as it is... is it a massive speed boost... sure it is... and its makes a cruiser turn even worse cause it doesn't effect turn rates out side of the small bump from engine power.

EPTE is second best EPTx... its just the way it is.

Gotta say drunk if you think running your engines at 15 and hitting epte 1 is going to allow you to keep up to my escort pumping 125 engine power with Damp and omega burning turns.... well gotta say... yes all those things you listed still matter a ton.

EPTE is a skill I have always used... the fact that people don't look at me odd anymore is fine with me.

Seriously I don't really get how its an issue.... and yes I get what Virus detailed... and EPTS is still a massive ISSUE... it is still REQUIRED... yes if it was my game instead of buffing the EPTx skills other then ETPS with LOR... I would have slapped EPTS down so hard it wouldn't have been funny.

As for fleet shields your right they are complete garbage... and the dev that designed them should be canned.

Simple fix at this point for EPTS... just make Shield Resists diminish with the same formula on hull resists.

As for EPTE.... I say reduce the speed buff by 50% and add a turn buff = to omega 1.... done. (but the OP would still be wining ... cause he doesn't seem to get it... speed in this game is just like everything else its about force multipliers. Its not just EPTE that he is seeing)
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 44
09-10-2013, 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
well this thread got weird. i detect a biased resistance to a toning down of the EPtE crutch, and the deflecting by saying how powerful EPtS is? thats funny, but transparent guys.
I'm running EPTW. The higher the better.


Crutch?

Do you run any of these EPTS? TT? APO? HE? RSP?


There are a handful of powers we could try and label "crutches".

Let me know if you would let me choose any one of the powers (my choice, of one of those you use - and you do use some of them, every tac focused ship does) on that list to swap out for EPTE instead.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 09-10-2013 at 11:59 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,890
# 45
09-10-2013, 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Speed based defense was always capped... what is allowing people to go over that isn't more speed... its more doffs.

No there is nothing thinly vailed at all about my love for EPTE... its fine just as it is... is it a massive speed boost... sure it is... and its makes a cruiser turn even worse cause it doesn't effect turn rates out side of the small bump from engine power.

EPTE is second best EPTx... its just the way it is.

Gotta say drunk if you think running your engines at 15 and hitting epte 1 is going to allow you to keep up to my escort pumping 125 engine power with Damp and omega burning turns.... well gotta say... yes all those things you listed still matter a ton.

EPTE is a skill I have always used... the fact that people don't look at me odd anymore is fine with me.

Seriously I don't really get how its an issue.... and yes I get what Virus detailed... and EPTS is still a massive ISSUE... it is still REQUIRED... yes if it was my game instead of buffing the EPTx skills other then ETPS with LOR... I would have slapped EPTS down so hard it wouldn't have been funny.

As for fleet shields your right they are complete garbage... and the dev that designed them should be canned.

Simple fix at this point for EPTS... just make Shield Resists diminish with the same formula on hull resists.

As for EPTE.... I say reduce the speed buff by 50% and add a turn buff = to omega 1.... done. (but the OP would still be wining ... cause he doesn't seem to get it... speed in this game is just like everything else its about force multipliers. Its not just EPTE that he is seeing)
The speed boost on EPtE is so over the top. It allows an escort/raptor/warbird/bird of prey to completely ignore control effects. I will give an example. Last night I ran into a double tap high yield III/Dispersal Pattern Beta II Transphasic/Hyper Plasma Torpedo B'Rel. he decloaked at 0.88km and dropped his transphasic torps/mines, cluster torp, and hyper plasma torpedoes. I photonic shockwave III + tractor beam II, Omega I + Gravity Well I with a chroniton torpedo to slow (it procced), and subnuked his Omega III. He pops EPtE + Evasive Maneuvers and he's 46.4km away in 3 seconds. The sheer speed a player gets out of just EPtE is absurd. An ensign level ability should not provide immunity to a Lt., Lt. Commander, and Commander ability stacked up together. dontdrunkimshoot said it very well above, it needs a nerf badly.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,540
# 46
09-10-2013, 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by playhard88 View Post
i think the 30sec duration is fine, it make epte a reliable skill like EptS. I prefer an small but constant speed buff of 30secodns, than a short burst of speed that will be only used for ships to run and cloak again.
Tune down the speed bonus but leave it with 30seconds effect it will benefit everyone, it will be usefull for escorts, crusier, everything. A short speed burst will only be helpfull for hit and run cloakers, and they already have enough things for run away.

And the idea of EptX powers is the ability of chain them, if u turn the EptE speed buff in a short duration buff it will be very annoying for pilots, imagine yourself firing a CRF and in the middle of it EptE activates and u past over your target by 5km...not fun. I would like be able of fire without putting my ship in reverse all the time lol
i want it to stay 30 seconds too, i edited the post to make it more clear.


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Speed based defense was always capped... what is allowing people to go over that isn't more speed... its more doffs.

No there is nothing thinly vailed at all about my love for EPTE... its fine just as it is... is it a massive speed boost... sure it is... and its makes a cruiser turn even worse cause it doesn't effect turn rates out side of the small bump from engine power.

EPTE is second best EPTx... its just the way it is.

Gotta say drunk if you think running your engines at 15 and hitting epte 1 is going to allow you to keep up to my escort pumping 125 engine power with Damp and omega burning turns.... well gotta say... yes all those things you listed still matter a ton.

EPTE is a skill I have always used... the fact that people don't look at me odd anymore is fine with me.

Seriously I don't really get how its an issue.... and yes I get what Virus detailed... and EPTS is still a massive ISSUE... it is still REQUIRED... yes if it was my game instead of buffing the EPTx skills other then ETPS with LOR... I would have slapped EPTS down so hard it wouldn't have been funny.

As for fleet shields your right they are complete garbage... and the dev that designed them should be canned.

Simple fix at this point for EPTS... just make Shield Resists diminish with the same formula on hull resists.

As for EPTE.... I say reduce the speed buff by 50% and add a turn buff = to omega 1.... done. (but the OP would still be wining ... cause he doesn't seem to get it... speed in this game is just like everything else its about force multipliers. Its not just EPTE that he is seeing)
EPtE has removed any other factor but EPtE from the speed equation. at least with EPtS, it still maters what shield you run, it always has. setting engine power higher then 15 is just gravy, and when i find i need more speed then set to 15 gives, i can only set it higher. and i do, but its rediculse how often set to 15 is more then enough. im also proboly in a 2AtB boat, so my engine power when set to 15 is close to 100 anyway.

as it stands now, on most of my ships EPtE is doing more to keep me alive then EPtS. for the same reason i dont run RSP on anything but cruisers that cant run APO. i dont need it, because you cant catch me and put me in a situation were i have to out tank and out heal damage i can more easily avoid.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,172
# 47
09-10-2013, 12:26 PM
With epte1 I can get to a speed of 70 with 15 engine power... in an odyssey. Thats enough to get me out of most tractor beams, gravity wells and even fly away from graviton pulse. Normally I fly at as speed of about 25. I don't see a problem of cutting that bonus speed in half.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,544
# 48
09-10-2013, 12:27 PM
If its keeping you alive around as well as EPTS is that not balanced ? Just saying. Why should EPTS always be > then everything else.

As for zooming 50k away... bops used to do the same thing popping a battary and hitting evasive whats the difference..... Its evasive getting them out of range not EPTE. I never had any issue escaping tractor beams before.

Any way I'll stop arguing with the fat boat drivers, that don't like not being able to keep up to the speed scorts....

I'll agree it could be toned down with out making it useless... however if they reduce the speed buff I would like to see a turn buff added... Frankly it would help the crusiers running it more then the escorts... right now a cruiser or worse a carrier running EPTE is going to have a 5,000 mile turn radius. A turn buff to at least off set the rate of extra speed would be welcomed.

So as I said earlier... 50% less speed... with a turn buff equal to aprox an omega 1.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,171
# 49
09-10-2013, 12:37 PM
I agree that its too powerful. Right now APO1 gives +106% for 5 seconds, so if you start with impulse speed of (say) 20 then you are going to get final speed of a little over 40 final [20 + (20*1.06)] for five seconds. EPtE1 gives +40 to impulse speed, so if you start with 20 then you are going to get ~60 final [20 + 40], and you have it for thirty seconds. APO should burst faster than EPtE cruising speed....

I wonder if it was supposed to be a percentage boost instead of a direct impulse boost. +40% would be around 28 final [20 + (20*.4)], which would be far more reasonable as a 30-second sustained speed bonus.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 50
09-10-2013, 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
So as I said earlier... 50% less speed... with a turn buff equal to aprox an omega 1.

The reason I dislike that is because we are finally in a place where Aux to Damps isn't still a lolpower to be ignored.

EPTE adds more speed, functions on EPTx cycles.

AID adds more turn, resistance, and functions on Aux to X cycles.

I like that the two of them are performing separate functions with regard to speed vs. turn.

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