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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,174
# 111
09-16-2013, 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Why do I want to have to slot 12 abilities when 4 of them are just two copies of the same ability? What, from a gameplay stance, is gained from those types of mechanics?
Variety. You don't have to do it that way. There are other options. If you remove that option, then you've removed those options.

Yes, 99.9% of the players may say do it X way...but that 0.1% might enjoy doing it a different way.
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,680
# 112
09-16-2013, 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Perhaps you could elaborate on this...

...to me, it's a common interface because of the amount of information a player has available to them (as is, I wish more of the info could be displayed) as well as the abilities that a player can use.

Personally, I'd prefer the ability to split things out more - and - to make the 4th/5th bar Horizontal instead of Vertical...

...but I haven't really been able to get what you're saying.
have you played mass effect or flashpoint red river to have used the squad control interfaces there?

the interface here is only common in that its bloody ancient by modern computer game standards. and its as obsolete as it is ancient.

hence the disconnect between gameplay and player that is caused by the interface in this game, that is just not there in the other two games i am talking about on a mechanical or gameplay dynamic level.
and mass effect HAD abilitiy cooldowns, difference is, they didnt get in the way of ACTUALLY playing, like they do here.

"whoop-ty-do, here comes an untelegraphed insta-kill/tpk, pity that space magic 40% resist was on cooldown, i might have just survived this cheeese if it was active."

Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
A smaller quanity of active abilities that had more of an impact than they currently do I believe is what they are saying.

Really what is the point of buffs that have 100% uptime yet still require me to mash the button? Why do I want to have to slot 12 abilities when 4 of them are just two copies of the same ability? What, from a gameplay stance, is gained from those types of mechanics?
this to an extent.
a lot of the abilities in this game just shouldnt be there in their current form.
saturation fire abilities like faw & csf sure, those should be there as toggled powers, but things like rate of fire mods should be down to player tactics.


the magic multipliers are pretty much bull**** too, that bonus to your shield res from eptw should be inherent to the higher power level at the cost of something else either braining reserve power that should be there, causing higher bleed through, or cutting regeneration


Quote:
Especially when using my 'tribal knowledge' so to speak I can make a single keybind on my spacebar to mash to my hearts delight and still perform better (in PvE at least) than a player with a high skill level but lacking that knowledge and flying a poor build.

The simple fact that one keybind (shield distribution to spacebar) can typically double a players survivability is simply ludicrous!
thats just an example of outright half assed implementation of mechanics.
that shield balancing should be inherent to the ships.

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Variety. You don't have to do it that way. There are other options. If you remove that option, then you've removed those options.

Yes, 99.9% of the players may say do it X way...but that 0.1% might enjoy doing it a different way.
spam is not veriety.
in fact, that is the complete opposite to veriety, if you have to spam two coppies of the same ability to get the effect of one sustained ability than you have removed the ability to include more verity.

you are contradicting yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redz4tw View Post
can you say attack pattern angry forumers 3?

Last edited by skollulfr; 09-16-2013 at 05:33 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,174
# 113
09-16-2013, 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
spam is not veriety.
in fact, that is the complete opposite to veriety, if you have to spam two coppies of the same ability to get the effect of one sustained ability than you have removed the ability to include more verity.

you are contradicting yourself.
I don't understand what's going on lately with people not reading. It's kind of getting frustrating and it's showing in my posts.

I said you have the option to do that...you have the option not to do that...thus, variety. Thus, no contradiction.
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,680
# 114
09-16-2013, 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I don't understand what's going on lately with people not reading. It's kind of getting frustrating and it's showing in my posts.

I said you have the option to do that...you have the option not to do that...thus, variety. Thus, no contradiction.
no, you dont. there are no sustained abilities in this game, so no option to use them. because they dont exist.

the game is mechanically stacked against anyone not using sustained buffs, hence so many people using 2 copies to maximise uptime.
to cover up the weakness of when the ability is not active.

that is not choice you are arguing for, its punnishment, punishment of players who dont play this games borked spam'y interface.

all happy & dandy for you since playing click-a-button rather that the game seems to be what it is you want to do as you move your power trey around a map rather than your avatar.
that being what the game is now, and what you are arguing for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redz4tw View Post
can you say attack pattern angry forumers 3?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,174
# 115
09-16-2013, 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
no, you dont. there are no sustained abilities in this game, so no option to use them. because they dont exist.
Not having a particular choice does not remove other choices. That you like or dislike the choices has nothing to do with them being choices or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
the game is mechanically stacked against anyone not using sustained buffs, hence so many people using 2 copies to maximise uptime.
to cover up the weakness of when the ability is not active.
Not everybody spams that has two copies of abilities. Some people carry a second ability, oh - I don't know - in case they get SNB'd to provide that coverage rather than just spamming them back to back.

What's that? Another option? Curious...

Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
that is not choice you are arguing for, its punnishment, punishment of players who dont play this games borked spam'y interface.
In your opinion, because you feel you need to play a certain way...

...which mainly points to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
all happy & dandy for you since playing click-a-button rather that the game seems to be what it is you want to do as you move your power trey around a map rather than your avatar.
that being what the game is now, and what you are arguing for.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Guide:_Keybinds

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...21&postcount=6

So far, all I'm getting out of what you're saying here is the following:

You spamclick and wish you could toggle.

Reminds me of the guy that wanted autofire for BOFF abilities...are you that guy? I don't remember.
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 116
09-16-2013, 06:33 PM
I do think this game needs more on till off (toggled like with MES) but with emergency power to X and some other abilities like heavy/rapid fire on 1 vs AoE fire etc.

Maybe I could put this to bed now. The amounts of changes the devs would need to make to "fix" the game in your eyes skollulfr is akin to creating an entirely new game.

In other words what you're campaigning for is a from the ground up complete rework of the game and slapping a number 2 on the end. I think a dev explicitly stated there will be no STO2 for a long time.

If you want change you will have to do it within the realms of what we currently have. If not, well I'm sorry but sometimes you reach that point when playing an MMO or online game where it's heading in a different direction to how you want and you step back and either stop playing or you casually play it.
------
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,174
# 117
09-16-2013, 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
I do think this game needs more on till off (toggled like with MES) but with emergency power to X and some other abilities like heavy/rapid fire on 1 vs AoE fire etc.

Maybe I could put this to bed now. The amounts of changes the devs would need to make to "fix" the game in your eyes skollulfr is akin to creating an entirely new game.

In other words what you're campaigning for is a from the ground up complete rework of the game and slapping a number 2 on the end. I think a dev explicitly stated there will be no STO2 for a long time.

If you want change you will have to do it within the realms of what we currently have. If not, well I'm sorry but sometimes you reach that point when playing an MMO or online game where it's heading in a different direction to how you want and you step back and either stop playing or you casually play it.
I guess that's the thing. I've done my fair share of complaining about STO's mechanics (heh, likely more than my fair share) - but generally, I try to frame them in reference to other MMOs and try to keep most suggestions to things that wouldn't require a complete recode of the game.

Sure, there's things that I see as fundamental flaws in the game...but they still wouldn't require a completely new game - and in the end - it would still be a MMORPG.

And besides, we've had the posts from the devs on certain things that are well thought out, etc, etc, etc...but that it's unrealistic because of the sizes of the changes that would need to be made to accommodate certain things. Heh, that kind of knocked the wind out of me on many things...but it's true.
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,086
# 118
09-16-2013, 07:27 PM
Having the option to severly gimp yourself without realizing it by making uninformed choices would not be called good design IMHO.
STO's F2P is basically an inferior experience for the masses at no cost being subsidized by a handful of whales seeking whatever it is that motivates them to spend hundreds if not thousands on a game.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,680
# 119
09-16-2013, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Not having a particular choice does not remove other choices. That you like or dislike the choices has nothing to do with them being choices or not.
if you are on space station and your choice is suck it up or jump out the air lock, that is not a real choice.

Quote:
Not everybody spams that has two copies of abilities. Some people carry a second ability, oh - I don't know - in case they get SNB'd to provide that coverage rather than just spamming them back to back.

What's that? Another option? Curious...
nope.
even with cyclint many abilities have gams in uptime that need plugging.
all you have done is reinforce my point aout always haveing one buff or another running.

Quote:
In your opinion, because you feel you need to play a certain way...

...which mainly points to you.
typical "lolol i ar so l33337" comment that constututes nothing but trolling

Quote:
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Guide:_Keybinds

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...21&postcount=6

So far, all I'm getting out of what you're saying here is the following:

You spamclick and wish you could toggle.

Reminds me of the guy that wanted autofire for BOFF abilities...are you that guy? I don't remember.
or i could just programme a macro right into my keyboard that even accounts for the clunk times that stop your other buttins working.

you have offered insipit, middling condescending answers and completely missed the point, that the answers you are posting are player attempts at circumventing the very issues with the interface i am talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Sure, there's things that I see as fundamental flaws in the game...but they still wouldn't require a completely new game - and in the end - it would still be a MMORPG.
pointing to other games using the same borked cookie cutter interface to find some sort of innovation that will actually deal with the problem, wont help anything.

and in fact, your statment here is only semantically true, i pointed out the mass effect interface, that being from an *rpg, your answer was genera based elitism.

Quote:
And besides, we've had the posts from the devs on certain things that are well thought out, etc, etc, etc...but that it's unrealistic because of the sizes of the changes that would need to be made to accommodate certain things. Heh, that kind of knocked the wind out of me on many things...but it's true.
most of what i am talking about in JUST down to the interface, the use of toggled or timed powers could be dealt with separately, or even hybrid systems used.

de-"mook"ing the npc's is another thing that could be done separately, though is woefully necessary to get the game to follow its own rules consistently.

but one way or another, it cant remain the same, they can chug as many new ships into the mix as they like, but at this rate the devs themselves are going to chase an unchecked positive loop to its conclusion.
destroying the gameplay with new content/entities that are soo far from what the current foundational mechanics cant deal with that sto will jump the shark because the current model doesnt work for the content the game already has and is only going to get more obsolete as time goes on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redz4tw View Post
can you say attack pattern angry forumers 3?

Last edited by skollulfr; 09-16-2013 at 07:37 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,174
# 120
09-16-2013, 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Having the option to severly gimp yourself without realizing it by making uninformed choices would not be called good design IMHO.
Limiting options because some of the playerbase might refuse to learn to play...irks me. What's wrong with learning to play?

If a player is unsure of something, there is a wealth of information available to them. Hell, you've provided a bunch of such information.

Cryptic has put unearthly effort into making the game something that folks can do almost anything and have a blast playing...if the player wants to kick it up a notch, the resources are there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
your answer was genera based elitism.
You've said that several times. I don't get it. It's the game we're playing. Again, if you don't want to play that kind of game...then don't. It's not elitism.

I'm picturing the following:

You're riding along in a luxury sedan, complaining that it's not a sports car.
You're watching a TV show, complaining that it's not another TV show.
You're eating steak at a restaurant, complaining that it's not sea bass.
You're out on a date with somebody, complaining that they're not somebody at the next table.
You're doing X, complaining that whatever X is - is wrong - it should be Y.

You're playing a MMORPG. It's not an Action MMO, it's not a MMOFPS, it's not a MMORTS, it's not an Adventure Game, it's not an Action RPG, it's not a Platformer, it's not a Racing Game, it's not a RTS, it's not a TBS, it's not a Card Game, it's not...etc, etc, etc...

...it's not elitism to say that X should be like X and if somebody prefers Y, then they should play Y.

edit: skollulfr, I've got to ask...are you mainly a console gamer?
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel

Last edited by virusdancer; 09-16-2013 at 07:49 PM.
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