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Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,316
# 121
09-16-2013, 09:33 PM
This thread is starting to sound like a call for yet another /faceroll game.

Please dont.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,541
# 122
09-16-2013, 10:03 PM
You know.. I tried to read this entire thread from its beginning (And I may still finish during luls in call volume while I'm at work) and I started to think about a few things..

We had some attention from Adjudicatorhawk, Borticus and company in the threads..

The bigger picture is definitely one that needs to be noticed.. But we can't look at that picture with out first rewinding back to the past to see what has happened to PVP..

In the beginning, we had a Queue system where you had to choose the map you wanted to PVP in. There were 5 Space maps (Briar Patch, Solar wind, Cracked Planet, Capture and Hold, and Space Mine Assault) and 3 Ground maps. (Don't recall the names atm but all 3 were ground arena). There was no Fed vs Fed, it was Fed vs Klingon. We had a Currency for each 10 levels of PVP. Ker'rat was buggy, but used. And if you ignore the bugs, exploits, and so forth, PVP actually was fun. And in the beginning you could even LEVEL off PVP.

Then, they introduced Fed vs Fed. Because the swell of Fed players outnumbered the Klingons (And so began the rumored KDF hatred by Cryptic). Shortly after they tried to fix the queue system, until finally they Merged the 3 Arena Maps into just an Arena Queue. The Capture and hold Map stayed as is (With cosmetic changes and bug fixes). A New Ground map was introduced, Shanty Town. The Space mine Assault Map vanished with little to no known explination other then it being plagued with unfixable bugs.

Then came what some might call the first nail in the PVP Coffin.. The change of the currencies.. Removed were all the PVP and PVE Currencies with the exception of EC and GPL and introduced was Refined and Unrefined Dilithium... To this day I personally feel they should have just merged the PVP coinage into 1 PVP Mark system. Left gear as well in those vendors that you could only buy with PVP currency.. And introduced Dilithium.

A PVP currency with Vendors for PVP Currency would have given people a reason to PVP: New Gear. But that didn't happen.

The Queues under went more of a visual overhaul, and also broke down a few times.. Ker'rat stayed fairly the same, but then they realized people were using the Daily Ker'rat mission to Farm, so instead added it to the very bugged PVP Daily mission rotation. A Rotation that some times makes me feel if your lucky to see Ker'rat once a month now. All because Dilithium is an "Account Bound" currency, and it was eaisly farmable.

Then came the Dreaded skill system revamp and F2P.. Also by this time Lock Box ships were becoming more common. As were C-store supremecy ships. Fleets also got their Star Bases. Doffing got intrudced. Mean while PVP sat in the corner..

While leading up to today, the biggest noticable thing that happened to PVP in the entire 3 Year evolution of the game was.. Ker'rat FINALLY got most of its glaring bugs fixed.. Bugs like No Walls, and the spawn point placements, as well as the still well missed and mostly newly fixed Side change bug. A Bug that I have seen some, and I agree with, ask to be instead made into a Feature for Ker'rat. N'vak doesn't need such a change.. Since its already a KvK area. But Ker'rat could make things more fun.

And now here we area.. Present day. Sure there are many things I left out. But this was ment to be a glance back at the History of PVP's meat and potatoes. The Systems that we have currently.

While PVE continues to thrive, and rightly so, in terms of playable content, PVP lays dorment like a Bear in hibernation for a winter that doesn't seem to want to ever end. Now by no means am I saying that PVE is perfect either. But PVE has what it needs to keep players interested up till the end game.

If I were to do a compairson of PVE vs PVP, these are the things I'd say each could use:

Better crafting system. Currently Crafting, to me, feels redundant. There really is no feel of find a node, get the mats you need, and craft cool gear. Crafting also only has one Unique item to it, the Aegis set. Other wise you can eaisly find better. Not to mention there is no recipe hunt.. And those special Recipes could eaisly be placed in both PVE end game content as well as PVP as random drops when either Players are killed, or as part of the daily mission rewards. And no, I absolutely do NOT consider the Reputation system a crafting system.

Actual End game missions. Not just the Queue up or Private Queue up missions, but something akin to the original Infected, Cure, Khitomer and Terrordome. Or perhaps just add speciality drops to the end rewards of those Queues that is akin to the original Borg Set. The same could be done for PVP where you finish a daily, and you get a chance to get special rare items you can only get there.

More PVP Maps/Styles of play. While I like what we have.. I'd LOVE to have either more maps to Arena/C&H in. Or new types of game play.. We have the Borg, and the Elachi, and other end game seeming villians, why not use them similar to the zombie apoc mission from Champions Online.

No Foundry support for PVP. This is something that personally I always felt was a waste of a wonderful resource. Even if maps had to be kept simple. Even if most you could do was use current locations for those maps, it could give us, the players, a way to fight where and how WE want. With the Dilithium tip system, it could also give us a way to earn Dilithium.

No Fleet support for PVP. Ok, now this one I CONSTANTLY Scratch my head at.. We have fleet star bases.. but we can't defend them against other fleets.. Derp?

Ker'rat gives no Omega marks for the daily. Ker'rat = Borg based zone.. Ker'rat Daily involves going in Ker'rat.. Ergo Omega Marks makes sense for Ker'rat...

No PVP Reputation system. I am not asking for a grind, and this almost goes into PVP currency, but it would be nice if PVP finally had a Reputation that we could use.. Even if it doesn't provide special powers, but just gives access to cool looking skins for our ships, or special stores for cool looking weapons that provide nothing beyond a new look or type.

Ok, I think I have done enough pointing out my thoughts on what is wrong with PVP and some elements of PVE.. Some of which are interchangable. And while of course we need power tweeks. Console/itemization balancing factors being taken into account. And the always needed bug squashes. We also need things to do. And I don't mean a grind fest that is just doing the same BORING things over and over (Yes rep grind is boring, except for maybe Omega, since you really only have to do 1 ISE a day) but something abit more fun.. What is that? I don't know personally.. I'm not a developer. I'm just a player who has a passion for this game. Weither its as a member of the PVP community, casual PVEr, or who knows what.. The game feels like it needs something more then lock boxes and C-store trash to give a reason to keep coming back..
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Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,119
# 123
09-17-2013, 05:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Limiting options because some of the playerbase might refuse to learn to play...irks me. What's wrong with learning to play?

If a player is unsure of something, there is a wealth of information available to them. Hell, you've provided a bunch of such information.

Cryptic has put unearthly effort into making the game something that folks can do almost anything and have a blast playing...if the player wants to kick it up a notch, the resources are there.



You've said that several times. I don't get it. It's the game we're playing. Again, if you don't want to play that kind of game...then don't. It's not elitism.

I'm picturing the following:

You're riding along in a luxury sedan, complaining that it's not a sports car.
You're watching a TV show, complaining that it's not another TV show.
You're eating steak at a restaurant, complaining that it's not sea bass.
You're out on a date with somebody, complaining that they're not somebody at the next table.
You're doing X, complaining that whatever X is - is wrong - it should be Y.

You're playing a MMORPG. It's not an Action MMO, it's not a MMOFPS, it's not a MMORTS, it's not an Adventure Game, it's not an Action RPG, it's not a Platformer, it's not a Racing Game, it's not a RTS, it's not a TBS, it's not a Card Game, it's not...etc, etc, etc...

...it's not elitism to say that X should be like X and if somebody prefers Y, then they should play Y.

edit: skollulfr, I've got to ask...are you mainly a console gamer?
you are being so asinine.
cant answer a single question without some sort of elitism, or deceitful flawed analogies.

if i was in a so called luxury sedan, and the engine stopped to take a dump in the street, yea, id complain.
if i was watching a general knowledge gameshow, and it worked like reality tv yea, id complain.
if i ordered steak in a resteraunt, and they put a still frozen ready meal on the table, yea, id complain.

that is what is going on in this game, with obsolete mechanics that you are so attached to.

with an interface thats more complicated than arma with half the functionality,
gameplay that involves "adveture zones" that are clearly sandbox inspired combined with a game system designed around small team trinity rubbish.
pvp where kills frequently take seconds or not at all, and tend to be fast paced, with an interface that barely passed the point of turnbased play.

and your only answar is to poo poo on other games that have elements that could work much better with and try to drag up some console vs pc elitist goalpost ****ing, red herring trollbait argument. just because you dont want to see that contradictions in the game caused by the interface.

thats just decietful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redz4tw View Post
can you say attack pattern angry forumers 3?
Quote:
Originally Posted by baelogventure View Post
Considering Ryan broke 25k in a NX, I expect he could easily pull 10k in an Escape Pod with a Hand Phaser.

Last edited by skollulfr; 09-17-2013 at 05:17 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,013
# 124
09-17-2013, 05:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
/snip
I'm going to ask a question, and I know you're not going to answer it...it's rhetorical.

Do you prefer cake or pie?

What will your reply be? I can tell you, based on every reply you've given so far while ignoring answering every question so far... You won't pick one...but you'll complain that the one is not like the other. Then you'll complain of my being elitist.

Willard the Rat, Klingon Science Officer

Swordsman has a bounce to it...
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,119
# 125
09-17-2013, 06:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I'm going to ask a question, and I know you're not going to answer it...it's rhetorical.

Do you prefer cake or pie?

What will your reply be? I can tell you, based on every reply you've given so far while ignoring answering every question so far... You won't pick one...but you'll complain that the one is not like the other. Then you'll complain of my being elitist.
no need to complain, just pointing out the obvious.
you didnt like complaints about the interface and you derided references to other games where the interface was done better, then after i shut you up for that obvious red herring, you tried to pull the console vs pc gamer argument out of nowhere.

both of which where the typical emotionally attached missplaced elitism you get in forums across the internest where cliquey fanbases refuse to see what could be done better due to dismissing all other generas as inferior on not pure enough. as you did.

you have not asked a single legitamate question.
you have spouted off red-herrings that boil down to "lolol L2P" and trolling of that level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redz4tw View Post
can you say attack pattern angry forumers 3?
Quote:
Originally Posted by baelogventure View Post
Considering Ryan broke 25k in a NX, I expect he could easily pull 10k in an Escape Pod with a Hand Phaser.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,238
# 126
09-17-2013, 06:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
/Snip
Uhmari? Is that you?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,013
# 127
09-17-2013, 06:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
Uhmari? Is that you?
Honestly, I couldn't remember the name - but that's who I was thinking of...

Willard the Rat, Klingon Science Officer

Swordsman has a bounce to it...
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,013
# 128
09-17-2013, 06:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
/snip
You can continue to spout your nonsensical garbage, but it won't change it from being nonsensical garbage...

Willard the Rat, Klingon Science Officer

Swordsman has a bounce to it...
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,119
# 129
09-17-2013, 06:39 AM
just you take that up with whoever next time some console or power breaks your precious pvp.

i pointed out obvious flaws and antiquation in the game, and places that may offer inspiration for fixing and modernising them. if anyones spouting garbage that would be you with your red-herrings, "lol dat justa drpy xyz genera game" and "r u teh konzol gaemar lolol" elitism.

your problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redz4tw View Post
can you say attack pattern angry forumers 3?
Quote:
Originally Posted by baelogventure View Post
Considering Ryan broke 25k in a NX, I expect he could easily pull 10k in an Escape Pod with a Hand Phaser.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 130
09-17-2013, 06:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
Uhmari? Is that you?
This guy actually predates Uhmari.

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Honestly, I couldn't remember the name - but that's who I was thinking of...
Author of these bits of hilarity
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