Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > PvP Gameplay
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 31
09-12-2013, 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
This is where I must disagree with you. Crypic is correct about PvE difficulty and the player base has already voted upon that. The metrics on content played clearly demonstrates this and the fact that the game player base has continued to grow rapidly drives the point home.

The average player does NOT want
- To learn the method of creating keybinds and then doing so
- Learn all the ins and outs of the game mechanics
- Heavily invest into their build to make it top tier/competitive
- And so on

They want to join the queue, do some pew pew and have some fun. With luck they get a prize when they are done. PuG stomping is the absolutely most toxic thing for a growth of the PvP playerbase.

The PvP forum community, and I mean no disrespect, is the vocal minority of the player minority. Therefore all feedback must be looked threw the lens of 'is this the direction Cryptic feels the game should go'.

Which is why there's a difficulty slider right? To make the pve more challenging? Why not actually use it to do that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 32
09-12-2013, 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
This is where I must disagree with you. Crypic is correct about PvE difficulty and the player base has already voted upon that. The metrics on content played clearly demonstrates this and the fact that the game player base has continued to grow rapidly drives the point home.

The average player does NOT want
- To learn the method of creating keybinds and then doing so
- Learn all the ins and outs of the game mechanics
- Heavily invest into their build to make it top tier/competitive
- And so on

They want to join the queue, do some pew pew and have some fun. With luck they get a prize when they are done. PuG stomping is the absolutely most toxic thing for a growth of the PvP playerbase.

The PvP forum community, and I mean no disrespect, is the vocal minority of the player minority. Therefore all feedback must be looked threw the lens of 'is this the direction Cryptic feels the game should go'.
Ouch that was very blunt, but at the same time, does the average player contribute to the community and help keep Cryptic afloat I wonder? What does the average player need with a Tackyokinetic converter or a rule 62 console or in fact buy anything for that matter?

Why do they need to buy any Fleet gear to which you are advertising in your signature if that is what you are saying in your thread?

PVE has become so stale and bland with years of neglect. Seriously, when you play KASE/ISE/CSE for the 1000'th time, does it not hit you, there's more to the game than popping cubes and leeching.

Keybinds/Macro are the bread and butter of MMO's, look at WOW as a prime example. To ignore this is ignornace at best. Seriously I have more than 15 skills to use, do you have 15 fingers? or do you love clicking your mouse and trying to find that elusive skill hidden somewhere while someone is pew pewing you?

As with any game, there will be those people who think Pug stomping is fun and it gives power. They exist in any game, but some people exist who will be happy to teach and share builds and provide feedback. If you don't ask you won't get it, simple.

PVP is the End game, not ROFLStomping Cubes/ probes. I never gave PVP much of a thought back in the day until I joined the queues, sure I got my ass kicked and felt silly, as I was new back then, not using TT and having a rainbow build (Hey it looked cool).

But you learn through your defeats. In fact i welcome death, as the next time I meet him, I will laugh in the jaws of defeat and come back stronger. I don't know about you, but I enjoy a challenge. PVP is not like PVE, it takes a long journey to become a better stronger player. Once you PVP you won't go back, you will see what Cryptic have been neglecting all this time and it's really sad.

PVP is now the only thing worth playing STO for me, not the endless grind to which there is no end and what is the purpose of it?Bragging rights for a T5 base? Gloating you killed a cube just by looking at it?

If you think Pug Stomping is toxic, you are missing the point. If you don't like a challenge then by all means carry on being ignorant and popping your cubes/gates and little probes and thinking your GOD. But don't conplain about pug stomps when you don't make an effort to improve.

The more you put into something, the more you get out of it.

In regards to the Queue, it isn't our fault there isn't a dedicated queue system for premades or the fact we have to wait more than 20 mins for a pop to occur. It is cryptic who has neglected this for far too long.

Pew pew and having fun with a nice reward is cool, but getting less than 20k EC each game a reward to you or anyone for that matter? Dilithium aside.

Perhaps having a casual 'easy' mode PVP Queue where there are restrictions on gear would be more useful or even hours played in PVP or having certain requirements before entering queue like a basic tutorial on PVP, So tutorials on all 3 careers and basic tanking, escorts and boff ability for e.g. Again simple stuff that cryptic has failed to implement since day 1.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)

Last edited by g0h4n4; 09-12-2013 at 04:22 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 410
# 33
09-12-2013, 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poeddude View Post
Bit of a contradiction there as PvE and PvP are the only 2 aspects of this game.

I always expect posts from pvpers to come down to "I'm better than you because I pvp" and i'm never disappointed.


Could you tell me exactly how pve is different from most pvp? Sure pvp has more abilities but tends to use them back to back the way NPCs do. People may try to out-maneuver you but keeping someone in your firing arc is the same in both pve and pvp.

I'd rather be in the top 5% of pve-ers than the top 20% of pvpers. Much larger pool to excel in. Just because you are in one does not mean you would make it into the other. Either way round. I suck at pvp.
Just said that your first point was not the case. But Ok.

You also did answer your questions about PvP... But on you hypotheticals on if borg did what we do? They have on average 1.4 million health on a cube, if it poped Aux2SIF and all sorts of heals... you would get smashed... and it would not die. The way PvE is constructed is to allow for large health to make up for the lack of healing. High damage to make up for the lack of timing, bridge officers, and inteligence from AI opponents.

The Top 5% of PvE players, are PvP players. The current record holders I believe are all PvPers.

Now as to being bad at PvP, please ask for help before you condemn the community as liers, egomaniacs, charlitens, cheaters, ect. We can help you to perform better. Just ask, you do not even have to spec. I promise.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 34
09-12-2013, 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegie0 View Post
Just said that your first point was not the case. But Ok.

You also did answer your questions about PvP... But on you hypotheticals on if borg did what we do? They have on average 1.4 million health on a cube, if it poped Aux2SIF and all sorts of heals... you would get smashed... and it would not die. The way PvE is constructed is to allow for large health to make up for the lack of healing. High damage to make up for the lack of timing, bridge officers, and inteligence from AI opponents.

The Top 5% of PvE players, are PvP players. The current record holders I believe are all PvPers.

Now as to being bad at PvP, please ask for help before you condemn the community as liers, egomaniacs, charlitens, cheaters, ect. We can help you to perform better. Just ask, you do not even have to spec. I promise.
the PVP help thread is a useful place to start, I know, that's where I got my PVP foundation from. The rest will come through experiance and exposure
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,160
# 35
09-12-2013, 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by g0h4n4 View Post
Ouch that was very blunt, but at the same time, does the average player contribute to the community and help keep Cryptic afloat I wonder? What does the average player need with a Tackyokinetic converter or a rule 62 console or in fact buy anything for that matter?

Why do they need to buy any Fleet gear to which you are advertising in your signature if that is what you are saying in your thread?
Because they can and want to.

If they are highly skilled at this game, and by highly skilled I really mean they have a large amount of knowledge about how the game works, they have no need to spend cash money on stuff.

Those lockbox keys on the exchange? They are put there by the players who want EC to buy a purple MK12 tactical console in the hope it will give their ship a bit more teeth even if simply using the proper bridge officer abilities would accomplish the same objective for a fraction of the cost. Their are exceptions no doubt, but the vast majority of the real cash STO gets is from the whales whom I doubt are all hardcore PvP oriented players. But I does not know that for sure, only Cryptic does.
STO has a diverse group of players with a wide range of expectations and playstyles. To that end the STO team should endeavor to create a variety of content with a diverse set of difficulty levels and challenges. Cake for everyone!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,693
# 36
09-12-2013, 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by g0h4n4 View Post
Ouch that was very blunt, but at the same time, does the average player contribute to the community and help keep Cryptic afloat I wonder? What does the average player need with a Tackyokinetic converter or a rule 62 console or in fact buy anything for that matter?
Cryptic's money comes from Locboxes and 3 pack ships , which (at my guess) get more purchases from PVE players by an order of several magnitude over PVP players .
So yeah , it's due to PVE players that you have a game to PVP in .

Quote:
PVE has become so stale and bland with years of neglect. Seriously, when you play KASE/ISE/CSE for the 1000'th time, does it not hit you, there's more to the game than popping cubes and leeching.
Neglect is in the eye of the beholder .
Endgame (especially raid type game like STF's) has definitely been neglected .

Quote:
Keybinds/Macro are the bread and butter of MMO's, look at WOW as a prime example. To ignore this is ignornace at best.
Perhaps , but due to the Sci-Fi nature of this game , it attracts a lot of ppl who are not gamers , nor MMO junkies , which is why any comparison to other games or MMO's only works up ti'll a point , beyond which there is no frame of reference for the 'other guy' .

Quote:
As with any game, there will be those people who think Pug stomping is fun and it gives power. They exist in any game, but some people exist who will be happy to teach and share builds and provide feedback. If you don't ask you won't get it, simple.
My first experiences with PVP (which I still hold as most enjoyable) were back a few years ago in PVP matches at low level ranks , for several reasons :
When you have a handful of powers only , skill does actually become a factor .
No insta-kills .
Other 'noobs' to play with .

Then I got to Tier 5 and got almost ROFLStomped .
And for a while I did not understand why I was a decent player up to Lvl 50 , but @ Lvl 50 suddenly I was average at best .

Quote:
PVP is not like PVE, it takes a long journey to become a better stronger player.
That's only partially true now , and that 'truth' only begins once you've leveled up your reputations . Until then you have no business in the current Lvl 50 PVP in STO .

Quote:
Once you PVP you won't go back
Not true .
I enjoyed PVP until the JHAS and the pet spam cam along .
The I quit for over a year , and now I dabble occasionally in PUG land .
But the joy from the early days has left the building a long long time ago .

Quote:
But don't complain about pug stomps when you don't make an effort to improve.
I'm sorry to say this , but it's not up to you to say what ppl should complain about .
If ppl want a more cookie-cutter PVP experience , be that via different queues for premades/pugs , or a different skill/power tree altogether , then they have the right to ask for that .

You can't force ppl to improve , and more then a few don't see your ideas as 'improvement' , either because they don't understand , don't want to learn or because they do understand (that some PVP builds are less then optimal for PVE for example -- despite what many PVP-ers tout) .

Quote:
Originally Posted by vegie0 View Post
The Top 5% of PvE players, are PvP players. The current record holders I believe are all PvPers.
The person (V_Silverwings) who devised the first plan to crack NWS (when it was still hard) is not an avid PVP player , so there goes your theory about PVP-ers being the best of the best @ everything .

Quote:
We can help you to perform better. Just ask, you do not even have to spec. I promise.
Be nice and don't lie .
STO will be out of Beta in another 2-4 years ???
... you know after another 3 story arc remasters, crafting revamp, skills revamp, PVP upgrade ...
*note : the 2-4 year guesstimate came out of comparing Cryptic's Dev speed and that of a snail . Sadly the snail won .

Last edited by aelfwin1; 09-12-2013 at 11:38 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,717
# 37
09-13-2013, 02:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
This is where I must disagree with you. Crypic is correct about PvE difficulty and the player base has already voted upon that. The metrics on content played clearly demonstrates this and the fact that the game player base has continued to grow rapidly drives the point home.

The average player does NOT want
- To learn the method of creating keybinds and then doing so
- Learn all the ins and outs of the game mechanics
- Heavily invest into their build to make it top tier/competitive
- And so on

They want to join the queue, do some pew pew and have some fun. With luck they get a prize when they are done. PuG stomping is the absolutely most toxic thing for a growth of the PvP playerbase.

The PvP forum community, and I mean no disrespect, is the vocal minority of the player minority. Therefore all feedback must be looked threw the lens of 'is this the direction Cryptic feels the game should go'.
Ouch. I disagree with your assessment of the "average player." WIth that logic in mind, they should all be able to fly around with balance energy setting 100% of the time, and expect to beat all optionals or get 1st rpice. This is on escorts that don;t even come with white DHC right of the batch. STOwiki remains empty, and accolade hunters never shared strategies and builds for beating the old CE....Let's just leave it at that.

You are misunderstanding what I'm trying to get at. Let me demonstrate with a few examples, instead. Please note that keybinds, math, premade kill strategies etc are not part of anything I'm talking about. Neither is pug stomping.

Lets take shield distribution and shields resists.

Problem 1: I see many players that don't redistribute or their shields (default bind is arrow keys, you can click on the ship icon in the UI, or you can indeed keybind it.)
Problem 2: Shield resists are very powerful.

Both components are essential when it comes to pvp. They are part of the game form day 1 (both of a given players career, and of the game as a whole).

Yet, PvE fails to incorporate those completely. Neither enemies or healing allies (think nws freigher or the kang) rebalance shields. Why? If a story mission mini-boss or mob, would make use of distributing shields. People would learn. There are many players out there with lvl 50 toons, maxed out rep, that are dumbfunded when they realize what shield distribution does to your survivability. Or how much the freighter benefits from TacTeam1. If just some NPC encounters were to include sharing heals, or shield rebalancing this would change. Make a 2min tutorial mission where *insert story explanation* your weapons are disabled, but you need to survive incoming fire by keeping your shields rebalanced.

Whatever the average STO players opinion and grasp of the matter. Shield resists or lack thereof matter. Its not like they can change the game settings to a mode where they don't. You don't need to understand the math. All it takes is a UI element showing you resist levels, but we don't have that. So shields resists become part of that esoteric knowledge you put beyond average players. It doesn't have to be. My point for all of this they don;t even need to pvp to get there. Incorporate different shield resist strengthening methods in NPCs and story missions mini-bosses. So that you can get a feel for how effective it is. Hell lets go to town with the idea, and include an engineering mini game in gateway, where your task is to design a Lt. level ship that has shield resists of X% over a given duration, by putting gear, and Bo skills on a paper doll, allocating skill points, and then seeing the numbers as if the ship were in sector space activating whatever you cooked up.

These are two examples, and I might just make a long post with many more one of these days. But imagine how much of the learning curve from PvE to PvP would be lessened if people at least had the option at hard difficulty to get familiar with these two concepts.
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013

Last edited by havam; 09-13-2013 at 04:29 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 38
09-13-2013, 03:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
This is where I must disagree with you. Crypic is correct about PvE difficulty and the player base has already voted upon that. The metrics on content played clearly demonstrates this and the fact that the game player base has continued to grow rapidly drives the point home.

The average player does NOT want
- To learn the method of creating keybinds and then doing so
- Learn all the ins and outs of the game mechanics
- Heavily invest into their build to make it top tier/competitive
- And so on

They want to join the queue, do some pew pew and have some fun. With luck they get a prize when they are done. PuG stomping is the absolutely most toxic thing for a growth of the PvP playerbase.

The PvP forum community, and I mean no disrespect, is the vocal minority of the player minority. Therefore all feedback must be looked threw the lens of 'is this the direction Cryptic feels the game should go'.
I did not expect to see someone hit a bullseye twice in one thread. I think you're kind of right in the philosophy/over arching direction too but I would have thought the direction was to make money and lots of it.

I was going to write more but really I just cba with some of the ego's and arrogant p***ks in this thread which doesn't help get people into PvP regardless of the help offered.
------
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,717
# 39
09-13-2013, 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
I did not expect to see someone hit a bullseye twice in one thread. I think you're kind of right in the philosophy/over arching direction too but I would have thought the direction was to make money and lots of it.

I was going to write more but really I just cba with some of the ego's and arrogant p***ks in this thread which doesn't help get people into PvP regardless of the help offered.
I really don't get it. Where does anybody suggest that you

Have to become a math head?
PUG stomping is good?
Learn and use keybinds?

Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,316
# 40
09-13-2013, 04:33 AM
Win at all costs.
Vice Admiral Rylana - U.S.S. DNT Omega X || Vice Admiral Lyzara - I.R.W. DNT Omicron X
Vice Admiral Kailiana - R.R.W. DNT Theta X || Vice Admiral Talina - I.R.W. DNT Tau X
Vice Admiral Victoria - U.S.S. DNT Upsilon X || Lt. General Dannika - I.K.S. DNT Sigma X
Vice Admiral Shondra - R.R.W. DNT Alpha X || Lt. General Rosanna - I.K.S. DNT Iota X
=== Vice Squad/House of Tlhap-Jen ===
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:00 PM.