Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 620
# 111
09-13-2013, 04:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djdamc View Post
I think our discussion is a little out of context. Let's look at the design principles behind each ship type. Sci ships obviously excel at CC and sci HoTs/debuff clearing abilities. That's fine. Escorts are supposed to be the spike damage masters. And they are. So what's the niche of the poor old cruiser? Judging by the game's design they were supposed to be "Jacks of all Trades, Masters of None". Let's see, decent but not best CC capability, check. Decent, but not best healing capability, check. What's left? the damage dealer's domain. Oh we have a problem, because most cruisers don't have enough tac slots for this job. Let's see what we can do... Oh wait there's A2B... If you take it away cruisers can't do a part of what they were supposed to do and that is being able to perform all tasks but at the same time not being best at any.

so just because theres no need right now for tanky ships you want cruisers to be escorts but more tanky than escorts?

its either you ask for a pvp update to give you something to do with tanky ships or you use them to cruise around and explore strange new worlds and seek out new lifes and civilizations ...that's canon.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,001
# 112
09-13-2013, 04:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainedna View Post
Im sure your defiant is a great healer.
Let's just say my cruisers are more effective at dps than that just-for-giggles-build would likely be at healing, even without running A2B.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 61
# 113
09-13-2013, 04:53 AM
Where did i say "I want cruisers to be HYPER DPS IMBA PRO UNKILLABLE MACHINES OF DOOM"? All i said is that cruisers were supposed to be Jack of All Trades, but what you're proposing here is to take away part of that. Thus, nerfing A2B means nerfing cruisers.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 620
# 114
09-13-2013, 04:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twam View Post
Let's just say my cruisers are more effective at dps than that just-for-giggles-build would likely be at healing, even without running A2B.
lol

when everything else fails theres always ramming speed...and that's better on a ship with more hp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djdamc View Post
Where did i say "I want cruisers to be HYPER DPS IMBA PRO UNKILLABLE MACHINES OF DOOM"? All i said is that cruisers were supposed to be Jack of All Trades, but what you're proposing here is to take away part of that. Thus, nerfing A2B means nerfing cruisers.

no ,having no game content that requires tanking is a nerf for cruiser.A2B is patch that allows cruisers to have all powers on global cd.

You know those attack pattern doffs for escorts.With 3 you can have a attack pattern on global cd.I want to see those doffs working for all powers on a escort ,not only attack patterns.Im sure you will agree ,if not bye bye a2b.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,001
# 115
09-13-2013, 05:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainedna View Post
no ,having no game content that requires tanking is a nerf for cruiser.
More specifically, allowing what tanking is applicable in STO to be done just as effectively by escorts through the silly speed tanking mechanic (and to a lesser extent by sci ships b/c of shield tanking), without offering any incentive to aim at cruiser tanking.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,600
# 116
09-13-2013, 05:14 AM
I'm sure if systems really wanted to, they could make A2B cruisers, synergize with Engie cpt skills. Sadly they don't. Hence Tac cruisers, enjoy A2B while everyone else should go into a carrier or a sci ship for healing and cc.

I mean if we would talk about iconic ships of star trek, like the defiant or the mighty recluse carrier, this might be a problem. Thank god, they only do this to weird fed design, with not recollection value outside of hardcore IP nerds. I mean who honestly associates a constitution, or galaxy class with Star Trek?
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Lieutenant
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 61
# 117
09-13-2013, 05:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainedna View Post

You know those attack pattern doffs for escorts.With 3 you can have a attack pattern on global cd.I want to see those doffs working for all powers on a escort ,not only attack patterns.Im sure you will agree ,if not bye bye a2b.
AP doffs? sure we can talk about them too, let's see what's the cost of getting apo and apd on globals... 3x doffs, interesting, now let's look at technicians, shall we? So, you need 3x doffs too, but wait 3x doffs won't do a thing on their own, you need to use 2 copies of a moderately useful ability which eats most of our aux 50%+ of the time. Is the relation of cost to effectiveness balanced? Not really. You will probably argue that "oh, come on, that aux eating property of aux2bat isn't that much of a drawback" well, it kills the effectiveness of your aux based reputation traits/boff abilities. You can counter that but by no means is A2B with technicians an I-Win-Button. You can easily counter it with CC abilities and nukes. But I guess asking for a nerf is a lot easier than trying to find a counter to A2B builds.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 620
# 118
09-13-2013, 05:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djdamc View Post
AP doffs? sure we can talk about them too, let's see what's the cost of getting apo and apd on globals... 3x doffs, interesting, now let's look at technicians, shall we? So, you need 3x doffs too, but wait 3x doffs won't do a thing on their own, you need to use 2 copies of a moderately useful ability which eats most of our aux 50%+ of the time. Is the relation of cost to effectiveness balanced? Not really. You will probably argue that "oh, come on, that aux eating property of aux2bat isn't that much of a drawback" well, it kills the effectiveness of your aux based reputation traits/boff abilities. You can counter that but by no means is A2B with technicians an I-Win-Button. You can easily counter it with CC abilities and nukes. But I guess asking for a nerf is a lot easier than trying to find a counter to A2B builds.
attack pattern doffs work on their own but a2b tech doffs don't.Not like you need an attack pattern to make the doff work /facepalm

you want similiar effect ,a2b should put on cd all aux2X powers not tt ,dem or things that don't have aux in their name.

Btw one of the reasons pvp should never get an update ,not even to nerf a2b, is because most pvp players refuse to even think before post something.For a new player looks like devs don't want to update pvp but in reality the pvp community is brain dead.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,472
# 119
09-13-2013, 06:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainedna View Post
Btw one of the reasons pvp should never get an update ,not even to nerf a2b, is because most pvp players refuse to even think before post something.For a new player looks like devs don't want to update pvp but in reality the pvp community is brain dead.
^^ This makes me *sigh*.
^^ I am Stoutes, and I approve of my message ^^
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,478
# 120
09-13-2013, 06:10 AM
Wait who said cruisers are supposed to be jacks of all trades ?

Cruisers are healers in PvP... if you don't understand that, you don't get STO.

Yes thanks to all the passive healing these days most premades don't run cruisers at all... yes its a balance fail on Cryptic part.

The Aux to Bat stuff sure you see it in the ques a bit... because people that would love to RP it up in there cruisers have Aux to Bat as a viable way to do some dmg... mainly because it gives them up to 4 more Tactical slots.... and doubles there healing potential with things like double RSP. You don't see them in premades cause its still a bad idea. But ya they rap^ things pretty well in PvE... and in pugs.

In any event... reduce healing and make pressure dmg a possibility again... and yes Healing Cruisers providing real pressure dmg... could once again make sense in pvp... over running healing sci ships and carriers.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
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