Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,144
# 241
09-16-2013, 01:41 AM
DDIS, a2b, if used correctly, can be very op. Do you remember when you said cruisers can't spike? I remember the outcome of that match up we had very well. That ship I used was a2b powered.

In premades, the dkora pre LoR was a wrecking ball (still is). Cruisers shouldn't be able to do that much spike. That is all thanks to a2b.

Like Husanak said, it is op, but the issue is, Captain PVE Kirks would go mental if any adjustments were made

Just to give another example, having rf3, omega1 & 1 tac team on global due to a2b on escorts is definately op. 3 doffs replacing the function of equivilant 8 doffs (3 ap doffs 3 cannon doffs, 2 tac team) without any chance role, come on.....
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,729
# 242
09-16-2013, 01:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by g0h4n4 View Post
Having Torps on a double tap actually makes sense, me and a few others use it, such as Emo.

But now that it is being nerfed, back to the drawing board
An Aux2Batt back to the Drawing board would be devastating to cruisers who try and keep up with DPScorts.

It's not an easy build to use properly, not only that unless you are very lucky in B'tran or fairly EC loaded, Aux2Batt builds can be fairly Expensive.

Thou shall not Nerf Cruiser builds!

Im not a lover of Aux2Batt, My Sci ships use completely different builds, My tac ships use other builds.

And until they making Tanking relevant in things like PvE Aux2Batt better stay cause its the only thing keeping my Galaxy flying.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,051
# 243
09-16-2013, 02:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
The aux to bat lovers are cute. I'll pretty much leave it at that... anyone that doesn't understand how these doffs are broken... really isn't ever going to get it. I am not saying they are destroying the game... neither did being able to load a second copy of a tac buff though. Just because something can be countered or isn't always the best way to play doesn't mean it isn't contrary to the game mechanics.

Hey the current dev that seems be doing anything close to balance fixes agrees... I think everyone enjoying the tech doff hax right now should be thankful Cryptic doesn't allow there devs to follow anything through... tech doffs where saved by having no one really paying any attention to them after they where dropped.

Remove or correct them now and incur the wrath of the PvE kids using tech doffs to ra*e borg. lol
Does it get any more insulting or arrogant?

Just because you like PvP, everyone else who doesn't isn't a kid.
PvP players shouldn't be surprised to be considered as arrogant by everyone else.

PvP is just a small part of STO, insulting 97% of the playerbase isn't a good start to get a agreement.

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-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-

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Last edited by yreodred; 09-16-2013 at 02:24 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,964
# 244
09-16-2013, 03:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
DDIS, a2b, if used correctly, can be very op. Do you remember when you said cruisers can't spike? I remember the outcome of that match up we had very well. That ship I used was a2b powered.

In premades, the dkora pre LoR was a wrecking ball (still is). Cruisers shouldn't be able to do that much spike. That is all thanks to a2b.

Like Husanak said, it is op, but the issue is, Captain PVE Kirks would go mental if any adjustments were made

Just to give another example, having rf3, omega1 & 1 tac team on global due to a2b on escorts is definately op. 3 doffs replacing the function of equivilant 8 doffs (3 ap doffs 3 cannon doffs, 2 tac team) without any chance role, come on.....
i was very specifically talking about fed pattern beam array or single cannon cruisers, that cant spike. i was expecting you would show up in some fed faction beam boat and try to prove me wrong, but you brought a doubletaping dkora, fairly out of bounds of what i was talking about.

the dkora, and the better in every way monbosh, without AtB could have set up double taps with just a LTC tac. it would be a bit below a double BO3 in power, but still. it didn't mater what was using double taps, cruisers or escorts, doubletaps specifically were the problem. is every ship that can double tap op then? that would mean nearly every ship was op.

none of the actual escorts that can run AtB and be a beter ship then the bug, still. for cruisers, it buff thier tac ability substantially, at great cost of thier survivability, and nearly all of thier team support ability. creating ships still inferior to escorts in firepower, unless you put a doubletap build on them of course

and then theres the jack of all trade destroyers, that without AtB builds might as well be called the good for nothings. they cant keep up with escorts or hit as hard. its like they were made with a hole only an AtB build can fill, and it does to make them compeditive.


you can call it op all you want. what you can create with it tends to break even with the purpose built ships, being used for their intended purpose.
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 739
# 245
09-16-2013, 03:36 AM
I personally don't use A2B and don't have very much experience.

But from an "outsiders" standpoint, it seems rather OP to me in the sense that for very little cost you get to essentially double all of your BO abilities or are allowed to run different ones yet get the effect of having 2 of them.

A Cruiser can essentially have 2x FAW + 2x Omega + 2x BO, and then EPtE + EPtS + RSP + Extend + whatever, all being changed/with a negligible CD.

That's not possible for a non-A2B ship, and all the A2B ship has to do is give up 3 DOffs, 2 Lt Slots (which can be readily handled due to having 'copies' of everything of other tiers), and Aux power (which is easily gained back [though, granted, not as much] via Leech + Warp Core, EPtA [totally affordable on an A2B build], Batts, or just sacrificing it all together and having your team cover your heals while you simply use a Polarize/Tractor combo).
The first we heard of getting new PvP maps "soon" was in August of 2010. We're consistently told something will be coming with the "next" update. Absolutely nothing has come to PvP since launch.

I think it's finally time Cryptic stopped stringing us along, don't you?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 620
# 246
09-16-2013, 03:54 AM
1 guy with a2b faw able to everyone in the other team (non healers) alone simply by spamming faw is perfectly normal and not op.Those who died a nOObs and a2b is not op plus crusiers should be more tanky and do more damage than escorts because that's the role of tanky ships.

lol star trek online or romulans online because I no longer know what game is now.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,144
# 247
09-16-2013, 04:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
i was very specifically talking about fed pattern beam array or single cannon cruisers, that cant spike. i was expecting you would show up in some fed faction beam boat and try to prove me wrong, but you brought a doubletaping dkora, fairly out of bounds of what i was talking about.

the dkora, and the better in every way monbosh, without AtB could have set up double taps with just a LTC tac. it would be a bit below a double BO3 in power, but still. it didn't mater what was using double taps, cruisers or escorts, doubletaps specifically were the problem. is every ship that can double tap op then? that would mean nearly every ship was op.

none of the actual escorts that can run AtB and be a beter ship then the bug, still. for cruisers, it buff thier tac ability substantially, at great cost of thier survivability, and nearly all of thier team support ability. creating ships still inferior to escorts in firepower, unless you put a doubletap build on them of course

and then theres the jack of all trade destroyers, that without AtB builds might as well be called the good for nothings. they cant keep up with escorts or hit as hard. its like they were made with a hole only an AtB build can fill, and it does to make them compeditive.


you can call it op all you want. what you can create with it tends to break even with the purpose built ships, being used for their intended purpose.


Oh come on..... You said cruisers can't do spike, period. Double tap? Get off your high horse will ya. I had bo1 & 2 not double tapping. They were gap fillers for sustained burst damage whilst rf was down. Rapid fire 2 with dem was the thing that did the damage with repulsors finishing your hull off. Tet glider with flow cap consoles was also ripping your shields off all the time.

Clearly you missed the point of the ship. Overwhelm everything at once with sustained burst making it more than suppression.

As for the survivability being screwed over by a2b, how did I "survive" 2 v 1 in that encounter? So the line about survivability being compromised is incorrect (i apologise to p2wsucks for being wrong on this in the past about a2b)

As for the vaccum cleaner being better, not really. The battle mode is extremely under rated.
By the way, I have all these ships and play with them a lot. God knows how many respects a week I go through to eek the last bit out of my builds.


The temp destroyer without a2b being useless? Now your just starting to show lack of knowledge on the ship.

I am more than happy to school you again on the benefits of a destroyer without a2b and double tap, again 2 v 1 like last time.
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles

Last edited by naz4; 09-16-2013 at 05:01 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 492
# 248
09-16-2013, 05:25 AM
Aux2Batt is most certainly NOT OP, at least in PvP. As someone who has flown an A2B cruiser constantly for the past 3 months, I can tell you that I feel downright vulnerable when cruising through Ker'rat.

Consider the following build:

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?...tacfahcrevs0_0

The above equals many long hours of grinding, both in Ker'rat and ESTFs. The 4 VR Mark 12 Phase Mods alone ran close to 80 million EC - nearly enough to buy an entire "OP" ship like a bug or galor. The weapons. The consoles. The shield/def/eng/warp core. All add up to a tremendous amount of personal investment in the search for the "OP" cruiser build.

But what does all of that hard earned tech get me? Double-tap insta-vaped, repeatedly, in Ker'rat last night by the tag-team of Cyrox and Jonie. Worse still, I KNEW it was coming - we had been talking smack in zone chat prior to each engagement so I fully expected to be attacked at any moment. And while I did manage to pop poor Iv'aan a couple of times in a few 3 v 1 scenarios, the reality is that I was pretty much target practice to these guys.

Again, the above represents a MASSIVE investment into the Aux2Batt play style, and yet I have no counter to the high-spike damage crowd. I tried slotting a Mark XI fleet neutronium and they killed me just as quick. Ditto the Adapted MACO shield which, while better at preventing spikes and double-taps, can't hold a candle to the Elite Res B in an extended run-and-gun battle, especially vs. multiple targets.

Note: I'm not saying my cruiser is a flying death trap - far from it. I've pasted more than my share of middling-level klinks and rommies, including some fairly big names. And I even got lucky and took out Cyrox once 1 v 1. But against elite players with high spike capability, I'm usually a sitting duck and I know it.

I supposed I could just clear out all of my universal consoles and slot nothing but fleet neutroniums and field gens - but then I'd be crippling my already anemic DPS output in order to create a "zombie" cruiser that can take it but can't dish it back out.

In the end, there really is no good solution for making a cruiser competitive against higher-caliber PvP players, even with Aux2Batt driving insane levels of power through every subsystem. It simply isn't enough, and certainly nothing anyone needs to be nerfing anytime soon.

RCK - a.k.a. Jacob Lightener, Captain of the U.S.S. Wyoming FAHCR
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 85
# 249
09-16-2013, 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rck01 View Post
Aux2Batt is most certainly NOT OP, at least in PvP. As someone who has flown an A2B cruiser constantly for the past 3 months, I can tell you that I feel downright vulnerable when cruising through Ker'rat.

Consider the following build:

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?...tacfahcrevs0_0

The above equals many long hours of grinding, both in Ker'rat and ESTFs. The 4 VR Mark 12 Phase Mods alone ran close to 80 million EC - nearly enough to buy an entire "OP" ship like a bug or galor. The weapons. The consoles. The shield/def/eng/warp core. All add up to a tremendous amount of personal investment in the search for the "OP" cruiser build.

But what does all of that hard earned tech get me? Double-tap insta-vaped, repeatedly, in Ker'rat last night by the tag-team of Cyrox and Jonie. Worse still, I KNEW it was coming - we had been talking smack in zone chat prior to each engagement so I fully expected to be attacked at any moment. And while I did manage to pop poor Iv'aan a couple of times in a few 3 v 1 scenarios, the reality is that I was pretty much target practice to these guys.

Again, the above represents a MASSIVE investment into the Aux2Batt play style, and yet I have no counter to the high-spike damage crowd. I tried slotting a Mark XI fleet neutronium and they killed me just as quick. Ditto the Adapted MACO shield which, while better at preventing spikes and double-taps, can't hold a candle to the Elite Res B in an extended run-and-gun battle, especially vs. multiple targets.

Note: I'm not saying my cruiser is a flying death trap - far from it. I've pasted more than my share of middling-level klinks and rommies, including some fairly big names. And I even got lucky and took out Cyrox once 1 v 1. But against elite players with high spike capability, I'm usually a sitting duck and I know it.

I supposed I could just clear out all of my universal consoles and slot nothing but fleet neutroniums and field gens - but then I'd be crippling my already anemic DPS output in order to create a "zombie" cruiser that can take it but can't dish it back out.

In the end, there really is no good solution for making a cruiser competitive against higher-caliber PvP players, even with Aux2Batt driving insane levels of power through every subsystem. It simply isn't enough, and certainly nothing anyone needs to be nerfing anytime soon.

RCK - a.k.a. Jacob Lightener, Captain of the U.S.S. Wyoming FAHCR

I have to agree with RCK. I've been flying a cruiser since launch and have been "perfecting" tac cruiser builds ever since. In PvE, its a monster with A2B but in PvP simply a SPAM sweeper against anyone who know how to tank. It quite a stark difference. So no amount of doubling of boff powers is going to change that. There is a reason why most elite players do not fly A2B cruisers in PvP premades. So...NO...it is not OP for cruisers at least. It does help bridge the gap a bit between escorts and cruisers in DPS but we all know in PvP it is not about DPS but more about spike damage.

In conclusion, in PvE...it may seem OP but certainly not in PvP.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,184
# 250
09-16-2013, 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rck01 View Post
Aux2Batt is most certainly NOT OP, at least in PvP. As someone who has flown an A2B cruiser constantly for the past 3 months, I can tell you that I feel downright vulnerable when cruising through Ker'rat.

Consider the following build:

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?...tacfahcrevs0_0
Well, I think I know how you can boost things a bunch - drop those two Flow Caps and get some fleet Neuts instead - the only thing those two consoles are working for on your build is the polaron proc- which honestly doesn't happen often at all. It's really not worth investing two console slots into that.

Also, note that you have no hull heals besides ET - no hull resist and no hull heals = one very squishy cruiser, especially in the high-bleedthrough meta.
PvP-ready toons: Ishmael - Betazoid Sci - Vesta - U.S.S. Yukikaze - The unsinkable destroyer - T'Scurr - Romulan Tac - Mogai - I.R.W. Archer - Countervape overwatch - Ffairl - Romulan Sci - T'Varo - R.R.W. Yuudachi - The nightmare of Solomon

Take it easy!
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