Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,158
# 41
09-24-2013, 03:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
But they're all still compromises.
Carriers have their own compromises: Carriers give up the ability to turn, rendering many of your "aimed" science powers of considerably lesser value as they are tougher to deliver on demand. Like with anything else, there are ways to mitigate the drawbacks of these compromises, but they're still compromises.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 516
# 42
09-24-2013, 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
I'll throw a vote out there for carriers, because I don't see many people mentioning carriers. The biggest problem with "proper" science ships is that they are forced to compromise between killing stuff (weapon power) and science (aux power) constantly. People try and get creative with batteries or torpedo boats, and the Vesta takes a stab at solving that by giving you an aux-powered weapon... But they're all still compromises. Carriers solve the problem in a much more definitive way by giving you autonomous and self contained firepower so you can kill things and do science simultaneously. The Atrox certainly works well, but the Recluse is substantially better and more flexible. Highly recommended for science captains with a lot of EC to throw around.
well, if you play pvp probably you do not need dps, and if you play pve a torpedo boat can be great. however using ES, EPtX chain the borg set and plasmonic leach, power is not a problem you can easly have 125 both weapon and aux power and 100+ to shield.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,030
# 43
09-24-2013, 03:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurialo View Post
some career specific abilities are amplified by skills... ex attack pattern alpha or sensor scan... some ships/career are better then others depending the role you want to play.
you can do hybrid , but also trade off: an eng. cpt flying escorts can survive longer than a tac captain flying escorts, but will never have the same dps of a tactical captain.... on the opposite the tactical captain will never have the healing abilities of a eng. captain.
yeah you know what gets buffed via starship sensors skill? the cloak detection part of the skill, not the resistance debuff part of sensor scan.
THAT is all science skills would add to science captain abilities. Same goes for fire on my mark skill of a tac captain which profits too from starship sensors, but only the cloak detection part.

i don't see what exactly can be seen as a trade off if you go escort with an engi? you trade suvivability with dps...that is a TRADE, not a trade off. a trade off would be if you gain nothing for the dps loss.

sorry, but going scince captain in science ship is a combo that yields hardly any advantage for current gameplay.
tac captain and engi captain work far better in a sci ship as it is now.

as it is now, all the non-passive science skills (by passive i mean skills like inertial dampeners, shield system, power insulators...) are so specific depending on your ship and boff layout that i try to avoid them, because once the skillpoints are spend i'm kind of obligated to use the corresponding ability all throughout the career of my captain. No matter what ship i take in the future. And imo, that sucks...

same goes for attack pattern skill, torpedo skill, threat controle and basically half of the ground skill of each captain that are tied to a specific kit, which makes changing kits sort of a "no-option"
Go pro or go home
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 44
09-24-2013, 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doffingcomrade View Post
Carriers have their own compromises: Carriers give up the ability to turn, rendering many of your "aimed" science powers of considerably lesser value as they are tougher to deliver on demand.
Which aimed science powers outweigh the mission usefulness of damage from pet spam? Serious question.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 242
# 45
09-24-2013, 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goku5030 View Post
Ah ok so which faction is better sci ships... Is that what you mean ? I am trying to understand the faction thing .. I thought all factions have good ships or... :/ which one is it
Best sci ship is the wells which is faction nuetral. Its also expensive at 600 lobi per charcter as opposed to account. Most of the experts fly Wells in PvP. Its a science vessel that can actually pack a tactical punch on top of the sci mumbo jumbo.

If your question is what faction has better access to better sci ships its Fed since they have more than one option
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,051
# 46
09-24-2013, 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alopen View Post
Best sci ship is the wells which is faction nuetral. Its also expensive at 600 lobi per charcter as opposed to account. Most of the experts fly Wells in PvP. Its a science vessel that can actually pack a tactical punch on top of the sci mumbo jumbo.

If your question is what faction has better access to better sci ships its Fed since they have more than one option
I have to agree the Wells is the best sci ship. It is the ultimate Frankenstein combination in this game which is why it's so popular.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 516
# 47
09-25-2013, 01:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
i don't see what exactly can be seen as a trade off if you go escort with an engi? you trade suvivability with dps...that is a TRADE, not a trade off. a trade off would be if you gain nothing for the dps loss.
tradeoff is whenever you find a compromise or a balance however you can call it "trade", but the concept is that using APA a tactical captain on the same escort has much more dps of a angi... so best tact/escort or engi/escort? the answer depend on what you like/want.

Quote:
sorry, but going scince captain in science ship is a combo that yields hardly any advantage for current gameplay.
tac captain and engi captain work far better in a sci ship as it is now.
your opinion...

Quote:
as it is now, all the non-passive science skills (by passive i mean skills like inertial dampeners, shield system, power insulators...) are so specific depending on your ship and boff layout that i try to avoid them, because once the skillpoints are spend i'm kind of obligated to use the corresponding ability all throughout the career of my captain. No matter what ship i take in the future. And imo, that sucks...
your opinion..
I have 2 sci captaing each one flying a wells. One is for pve, It has just 1xTT and 2xTHY and only using the romulan hyperplasma torpedo can do well and fast as much as a decent tactical captain. The othe has no dps, I use it for pvp and let tell me I do not need dps or help to destroy someone who think "oh.. a sci/sci toon, what a easy opponet... my dps will destroy him in a while".



however dps is not the way of a scientis and you ... but if you play pvp you can see how much important can be a scientist flying a science ship.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 832
# 48
09-25-2013, 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurialo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
sorry, but going scince captain in science ship is a combo that yields hardly any advantage for current gameplay.
tac captain and engi captain work far better in a sci ship as it is now.

your opinion..
Its a prity good opinion though. And I certainly agree with it.

The science captain has one trait available to them that is not available to engineers or tactical captains that improves the abilities of a science ship. That is 'conservation of energy'

That trait potentially increases the damage of exotic powers by up to 30% provided the captain has been taking fire from energy weapons.

A tactical captain can exceed that bonus thanks to their captain abilities and does not have to have taken fire from energy weapons first. Further more the tactical captain's cool down reduction ability helps alleviate the worst failing of science powers, the long cool downs.

Science captains have no option to deal with this that isn't available to other captains.

Engineers also potentially benefit a science ship. One of the worst failings of science ships is the need to run aux higher then is generally required on other ships. Engineers' captain abilities help them do this and they have a trait available to them that gives them more power on the use of emergency power abilities and batteries which also helps with this.

Certainly there are ways for a science captain to work around the greater power requirements of science ships but it can not be denied that engineers have an easier time doing so.

What's more Engineers defensive abilities present the option of skimping a little more on bridge officer healing powers opening up the possibility to do more sciency things with a science ship.

The only other thing science captains have to enhance science abilities is a team buff, which they could just as easily use whilst sitting in an escort to allow their tac friend to make the powers of his science ship even better.

So as we have ascertained that science captains do not do much to enhance science ships what do science ships do to enhance science captains? They have a slightly higher innate auxiliary power level that enhances science captain abilities by a small amount and that's it.

On the other hand if I put my science captain in an escort then my AoE debuff (sensor scan) could not be accompanied by anything better then a mix of scatter volley, attack pattern beta and torpedo spread. And with rapid fire and torpedo high yield I can take the best possible advantage of the time I have to kill my opponent in PVP before he gets his buffs back after a sub nuke. If I want to keep my team in my Scattering field its easier to do in the most maneuverable escort then it is in the most maneuverable science ship and photonic fleet works the same regardless of what you fly.

The smaller innate boost to aux from an escort is no issue as science captain abilities have a long reuse timer. If I decide I want to boost them with aux I don't have to divert power from elsewhere for long or I could just use a battery, or emergency power to aux.

Now I am not saying you shouldn't fly science ships with a science captain. I do. I fly everything with a science captain. I love science. But if my goal were to get the most effect I possibly could from my science ships' abilities then science captain would be my last choice to fly it. If my goal was to get the best possible use out of my science captains abilities then an escort would be my first choice for him.

As it stands the trinity in STO, as represented by cryptic, is broken. I am sorry but the class descriptions at character creation represent cryptics intentions for the classes, not the actuality.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 228
# 49
09-25-2013, 07:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stardestroyer001 View Post
Wells-class Temporal Science Vessel
Vesta
Fleet Nova Science Vessel
Fleet Olympic Research Science Vessel
Fleet Nebula Adv. Res. Science Vessel
Fleet Luna Recon Science Vessel

The rest are either only for very specific and advanced builds, or worthless.
Rofl I don't have enough ec for the well.. Vesta I am getting atm ^^... thanks though..
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,030
# 50
09-25-2013, 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurialo View Post
tradeoff is whenever you find a compromise or a balance however you can call it "trade", but the concept is that using APA a tactical captain on the same escort has much more dps of a angi... so best tact/escort or engi/escort? the answer depend on what you like/want.



your opinion...



your opinion..
I have 2 sci captaing each one flying a wells. One is for pve, It has just 1xTT and 2xTHY and only using the romulan hyperplasma torpedo can do well and fast as much as a decent tactical captain. The othe has no dps, I use it for pvp and let tell me I do not need dps or help to destroy someone who think "oh.. a sci/sci toon, what a easy opponet... my dps will destroy him in a while".



however dps is not the way of a scientis and you ... but if you play pvp you can see how much important can be a scientist flying a science ship.
yet you do not present anything to counter my "opinion", which i prefer to call my "assesment".
Your main argument against my "assesment" seems to be:"I can do stuff in my wells..."

what i tried to point out is the lack of synergy a sci captain in a sci ship has, which the 2 other classes bring to any ship class you place them in.
and that is not an opinion, that is fact.
Go pro or go home
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