Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,747
# 21
09-18-2013, 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
This is the part that is unfortunately not going to work.

PvP fleets have PvPers that are online very often with their fleet/friends.

They can ask "any premades online" every day for a week and never have anyone pipe up to accept a match.

That's the simple reality of it.


Hopping into the queues is what they do for fun, to test builds and hopefully meet (or intercept ) another fleet/pugmade/premade team in the queues.


I understand why being on the business end of a premade can be a short, brutal affair for a PUG - but taking away the queues completely will just kill the whole concept of PvPing with your friends and fleet.


Call me elitist, but all arguments aside - PvP in the queues is first and foremost a team based environment.

Is it the fault of the teams that brought teams, to fight other teams?

Or do the individuals who did not bring a team to a team fight also bear some responsibility?

I get it, some people don't want to think or put effort into anything they do in their hobby time.

Unfortunately for them PvP is not casual, and is the deep end of the pool.



I recognize some fleets actively do go out with the intent to PUGstomp but I'll also say that not every fleet is like this and many really do want a good, fun, fight.

Yeah I have seen this myself. Premade calling out other premades for a few pvp round usually go unanswered in OPvP. Which is strange in itself. Then I see these premades in public queues and I don't know whether to feel mad that I have to face these people outgunned or just be sad for them.
Reality is WAR
KHG Klingon Honor Guard
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
# 22
09-18-2013, 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deokkent View Post
Yeah I have seen this myself. Premade calling out other premades for a few pvp round usually go unanswered in OPvP. Which is strange in itself. Then I see these premades in public queues and I don't know whether to feel mad that I have to face these people outgunned or just be sad for them.
Surprisngly... I see the exact opposite. I see extremely few teams looking for matches in OPvP. I see individuals looking for teams, or teams forming... but those teams head straight to the queues.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 23
09-18-2013, 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deokkent View Post
Yeah I have seen this myself. Premade calling out other premades for a few pvp round usually go unanswered in OPvP. Which is strange in itself. Then I see these premades in public queues and I don't know whether to feel mad that I have to face these people outgunned or just be sad for them.
ROFLStomp comes to mind and ego trip. Sometimes they want to give themselves the confidence and a sense of false secruity.

When they meet a proper premade, they will get roflstomped themselves by becoming so lazy and unable to adapt builds.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 24
09-18-2013, 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny111971 View Post
The queue experience as someone new to PvP, who hasnt developed the contacts to make a team to run with, and begin to excel with is turned off by the experience. You saved me once from throwing in the towel if you recall.

Not every player has access to someone to encourage and help them improve. Few participate in the forums, so are not aware of things such as PvP Bootcamp, or the channels we mention.

You can't save everyone.

I took the initiative, you took the initiative.

Most players posting here who actually PvP, or who have joined OPvP has taken at least some level of initiative.


Let's turn this around for a second.

Let's take those same players, let's put them into an Elite STF, an Elite Crystalline Entity.

They haven't come to the forums, they don't have friends to draw on, they don't belong to any channel to do those missions.

What takes good players 3 to 5 minutes to complete, takes some of them well over 45 minutes.

That's right, some people still take 45 minutes to do an ISE.


Does any decent player really like the state of that content? How easy it is?

That kind of content got demolished in terms of challenge very specifically to cater to the kinds of players you describe.


What have those players learned from the experience? What have they added to the overall gaming experience for others?


If any of the recent PUG CCEs I've done on a lark are indication, they have learned exactly Zero.



To me, when people ask for the PUBLIC queue system to cater solely to individual casual PUGgers, they are asking for the same thing as the silly faceroll fest that has become of PvE - which is to say "dumbing it down".


There are already two full PvP environments most Premades tend to ignore or eschew, Kerrat & C&H - why should Arena also be specifically sectioned off to only cater to one specific playstyle?

Answer me honestly, how frequently do you do PUG CCE, PUG ESTFs, PUG NWS?

Compare it to how often you do that content on a team - what is basically a "premade".

Now ask yourself why you prefer one way over the other, and then ask yourself how you would feel if the game forced you into the first one.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 09-18-2013 at 01:10 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 78
# 25
09-18-2013, 01:39 PM
So you join a TEAM based arena and get beaten by a TEAM then complain about a TEAM? If you want a 1v1 you can organize it. If you want a balanced match join Tyler durden or organize it yourself. The arena queue is for team based play. C&H is for if you want random, or kerrat.

Honestly, Naz and I alone as healers entered the queue yesterday and people accused us of "premade pugstomping". It's ridiculous, and it comes down to egos not liking to lose. Most premades only enter the queues to test and to try and catch other premades who won't fight if asked. We even apologize when it's super lopsided because its boring and not fun for anyone.

Instead of making more semi populated queues why don't people get some friends or understand that you will be at a disadvantage if you are in a team environment solo.
Nixus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
# 26
09-18-2013, 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post

What takes good players 3 to 5 minutes to complete, takes some of them well over 45 minutes.

That's right, some people still take 45 minutes to do an ISE.
This is exactly why I run most STF's in Channel Private matches (many with you, I might add). Where the caliber of the player is better.If you want to run a CSE with 12 Minutes (or more) on the clock... you know where to go... You don't hit the queues, you create a private match.

To that end, if you are looking for a better quality opponent for PvP (fun, fair, and balanced fight)... why would you go to the queues? Why wouldn't you use the OPvP channel?

I monitor OPvP whenever I am on... I can count on one hand the number of times I've witnessed a premade looking for a team to fight... now... it might be there are other channels that I don't belong to... and I will concede that I do not see everything that is put out there.

Now, regarding difficulty of content... you know I have been a long time advocate of additional levels of difficulty... my personal belief is that all "Elite" STF's should be nearly as hard to complete as No Win Scenario. Rename the current Elite STF's to Advanced, then really add another level of difficulty.

I'm also not saying that PvP should be "easy". Not once have I said that. Even under my suggestion that you can only queue solo, there will be times players get wiped... many individual players can wipe the floor with an unprepared/inexperienced PvP'er (or even a full team of inexperience players). However, the point is... if you randomize the teams a bit more in the queues (as I suggested) you'll end up with a better chance at a well rounded match). There would be a better chance that the inexperienced player, gets matched with a couple of good premade players... who can offer some hints/tips or point them in the right direction.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
# 27
09-18-2013, 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyphoid7 View Post
The arena queue is for team based play. C&H is for if you want random, or kerrat.
Interesting that there is no indication that this is how it is supposed to be when you queue.

I am not even disagreeing with you. All I am saying is in a PUG... it should be completely random. It would lessen the complaints and hostility towards PvP.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
# 28
09-18-2013, 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
To me, when people ask for the PUBLIC queue system to cater solely to individual casual PUGgers, they are asking for the same thing as the silly faceroll fest that has become of PvE - which is to say "dumbing it down".


There are already two full PvP environments most Premades tend to ignore or eschew, Kerrat & C&H - why should Arena also be specifically sectioned off to only cater to one specific playstyle?

Answer me honestly, how frequently do you do PUG CCE, PUG ESTFs, PUG NWS?

Compare it to how often you do that content on a team - what is basically a "premade".

Now ask yourself why you prefer one way over the other, and then ask yourself how you would feel if the game forced you into the first one.
I am not asking it be dumbed down at all.

You aren't forced into a solo team environment... you are free (just like ESTF's CCE, and NWS) to queue or to form private matches in PvP.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 78
# 29
09-18-2013, 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny111971 View Post
Interesting that there is no indication that this is how it is supposed to be when you queue.

I am not even disagreeing with you. All I am saying is in a PUG... it should be completely random. It would lessen the complaints and hostility towards PvP.
You know it's team based play because its 5 v 5 teams, unlike kerrat where you aren't autoteamed. It also has a "queue team" button.
Nixus
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 42
# 30
09-18-2013, 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyphoid7 View Post
Most premades only enter the queues to test and to try and catch other premades who won't fight if asked. We even apologize when it's super lopsided because its boring and not fun for anyone.
With split Qs you will "catch other premades" much easier, just enter with your team in "only Team Qs" and you will not need to apologize for roflstoping pugs.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:31 AM.