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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 683
# 121
10-25-2013, 11:51 AM
Just read that Geko thinks the K'Vort is a bad idea because it's size is not consistent (hello USS Defiant, apparently your size variance was not an issue) and he cannot justify a BoP turnrate on a Negh'var-sized ship (we didn't ask for one and it isn't THAT big). Instead, they may make something and call it a K'Vort (Vod'Leh all over again?) but we're more likely to get something else first. Also thinks a Ferasan ship should be some kind of mutant Atrox...



Disenchanted doesn't even cover it.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,375
# 122
10-25-2013, 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drowrulesupreme View Post
Just read that Geko thinks the K'Vort is a bad idea because it's size is not consistent (hello USS Defiant, apparently your size variance was not an issue)
Of course the difference here is that the K'vort is in 3 episodes, total screen time less then 3 minutes, while the Defiant is in about 100 episodes. There's a massive difference in iconic stature there.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,176
# 123
10-25-2013, 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
Of course the difference here is that the K'vort is in 3 episodes, total screen time less then 3 minutes, while the Defiant is in about 100 episodes. There's a massive difference in iconic stature there.
That and the Defiant has a hell of a lot more background info on it than the Defiant since the K'vort is not a hero ship and the Defiant is.

That said though I would be happy with any ship that is not another cruiser variant.
toDuj 'oS rol.
Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 466
# 124
10-25-2013, 07:10 PM
I'll just repost this here....

Rivera invalidated his OWN argument over the K'Vort....

Quote:
The K'Vort (1:00:57)- "The K?Vort? it?s just a big B'Rel. Right? So I'm not going to make a Negh'Var-sized B'Rel. If you look up the sizes of the B?Rel and? they?re just all over the place. They were never consistent in the show. What we decided to take out of that for 2409, you started with the B?Rel and you get bigger and bigger Birds-of-Prey. Making a Raider that huge is just, I wouldn?t be unable to justify a B'Rel/Raider turnrate for a ship that big. So, no. Whether or not we?ll call something a K?Vort? maybe?
K'vort = Big B'Rel

You start game with a B'rel and get "bigger and bigger" BoP

He can't justify the turn rate of a BoP that big.....

So why do the high end BoP NOT have a turn rate issue again?
===Member of the "Disenchanted"===
Quote:
Originally Posted by drowrulesupreme View Post
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 683
# 125
10-26-2013, 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
Of course the difference here is that the K'vort is in 3 episodes, total screen time less then 3 minutes, while the Defiant is in about 100 episodes. There's a massive difference in iconic stature there.
One man's iconic ship is another man's m'eh.

My point, which you glossed over, is that the Defiant had size variances between its many episodes as much as the K'Vort for its few, but the Defiant made it into a game with a Fed faction and KDF faction. The K'Vort is a recognised Klingon ship name (and ship type, regardless of size issues) and deserves to be in a game with a Fed faction and KDF faction as much as the Defiant does. Using size variances as an excuse not to put a ship in game, for any faction, is a lazy excuse and deserving of derision.

For many die-hard (and casual, like myself) fans of the Klingons, not having a K'Vort is a thorny issue. Giving an excuse which has already been ignored for the Defiant is hardly likely to make KDF fans happy.

I normally respect your posts, Cosmic, but not this one.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,073
# 126
10-26-2013, 02:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
Of course the difference here is that the K'vort is in 3 episodes, total screen time less then 3 minutes, while the Defiant is in about 100 episodes. There's a massive difference in iconic stature there.
Ah, so it's the identical discussion we had regarding the Ambassador all over again.

Oh, BTW when we count all "big Bird of Prey" episodes we end up with a whole lot more than 3.

It's also noteworth they mentioned the class in "The Path to 2409"...only to then say "nah, not in STO"...but then they did the same with the IKS Gorkon too.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,375
# 127
10-26-2013, 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drowrulesupreme View Post
One man's iconic ship is another man's m'eh.

My point, which you glossed over, is that the Defiant had size variances between its many episodes as much as the K'Vort for its few, but the Defiant made it into a game with a Fed faction and KDF faction. The K'Vort is a recognised Klingon ship name (and ship type, regardless of size issues) and deserves to be in a game with a Fed faction and KDF faction as much as the Defiant does. Using size variances as an excuse not to put a ship in game, for any faction, is a lazy excuse and deserving of derision.

For many die-hard (and casual, like myself) fans of the Klingons, not having a K'Vort is a thorny issue. Giving an excuse which has already been ignored for the Defiant is hardly likely to make KDF fans happy.

I normally respect your posts, Cosmic, but not this one.
I didn't gloss over your point, as it wasn't relevant to what I was replying to.

Trek is a mish-mash, but that doesn't mean somethings aren't iconic and so must be in a Trek game. DS9 was all over the place in size too when compared to various ships in the series but the game would feel very empty if we didn't include DS9 because of that. IE, it's too iconic to leave out no matter how much trouble it was putting it into the game.

I'm not arguing against the K'vort. I'd be perfectly happy if the KDF Faction received 20 new ships and 20 new costumes. I'm simply saying there's a difference in iconic stature to Trek fans between the Defiant and K'vort, and so it's logical to assume that Cryptic would put the extra effort into the Defiant without giving it any thought. It's like your comparing gold to lead in your example.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,375
# 128
10-26-2013, 05:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
It's also noteworth they mentioned the class in "The Path to 2409"...only to then say "nah, not in STO"...but then they did the same with the IKS Gorkon too.
Lots of ships are mentioned in the Path that aren't in the game. Heck, lots of ships are in the game that aren't available to players. Just go look at all the Typhoon and Jupiter posts over the years. Talking about, or even showing it in game, doesn't mean Cryptic is willing to put-forth the effort to make it.

I've often wondered if a KDF pre-order/kickstarter would be worthwhile. Cryptic would supply the stats and sketch and then the KDF players would pre-pay for the ship, or uniform, or whatever. If enough pre-paid it would go into production. That would give Cryptic a financial justification to put those 20 days into making whatever. And it also help to establish that the KDF is willing to buy things. Cryptic needs to get over the gun-shy idea of getting burned over previous ship. This might be the first step to getting over that.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.

Last edited by thecosmic1; 10-26-2013 at 05:52 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 466
# 129
10-26-2013, 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
I've often wondered if a KDF pre-order/kickstarter would be worthwhile. Cryptic would supply the stats and sketch and then the KDF players would pre-pay for the ship, or uniform, or whatever. If enough pre-paid it would go into production. That would give Cryptic a financial justification to put those 20 days into making whatever. And it also help to establish that the KDF is willing to buy things. Cryptic needs to get over the gun-shy idea of getting burned over previous ship. This might be the first step to getting over that.
It would also seal the mausoleum once and for all about Klingons not buying ships excuse, making any future "klingons don't sell" argument a half-arsed Dev excuse for them to NOT put any of the other IP ships in the game that should be there.... Like the ENT era BoP... or the D12... or a D5 and Classic D7 variant...
===Member of the "Disenchanted"===
Quote:
Originally Posted by drowrulesupreme View Post
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,073
# 130
10-26-2013, 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunseahl View Post
It would also seal the mausoleum once and for all about Klingons not buying ships excuse, making any future "klingons don't sell" argument a half-arsed Dev excuse for them to NOT put any of the other IP ships in the game that should be there.... Like the ENT era BoP... or the D12... or a D5 and Classic D7 variant...
The D12 is physically identical to the B'rel as it is represented in the game and the clasic D7 is in the game as well.

http://imageshack.us/a/img844/7585/fleetktinga.jpg

Stop asking for stuff that's already there it makes the KDF players look silly.
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