Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,958
# 21
09-24-2013, 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordcutterslade View Post
alright so i tested GW1 and GW3 on tribble

Here are the Tooltip stats first:

( 226 points in particle generators,4consoles and 130 aux)

GW1 660.8
GW2 881
GW3 1.100.9


( 195 points in particle generators,3 consoles and 130 aux)

GW1 640.6
GW2 854
GW3 1067.3


now to the dmg ticks:

GW1-226points(4 particle consoles)and 130 aux

GW3- 226 points(4 particle consoles)and 130 aux
Thank you very much for doing this test lordcutterslade. As of right now, Gravity Well I (Holodeck) is dealing 941.9 damage/second under 226 points in particle generators. However, Gravity Well I (Tribble) is dealing 660.8 damage/second. Under these test results, Gravity Well I (Tribble) is 30% less effective than Gravity Well I (Holodeck). This is indeed unfortunate, when this goes live Gravity Well I will be putting out less damage than a single beam array. The damage dealt by the current holodeck Gravity Well I is fine in the current state. It could use a hold buff (which it gets), but the damage against players is nowhere near over the top.

The maximum a player can get a Gravity Well I's damage unbuffed is 1066.22 damage/second. With buffs (Attack Pattern Omega I and Conservation of Energy), Gravity Well I can deal 1546.019 damage/second. That is 21,324.4 damage over 20 seconds unbuffed and 30,920.38 damage over 20 seconds when buffed. Cannon Scatter Volley II will deal that amount of damage over it's 8 second duration, the gravity well I's holodeck numbers are reasonable. Based on the tooltip, the maximum a player can get Gravity Well III on holodeck is 1,777.527 damage/second without buffs. With buffs (Attack Pattern Omega I and Conservation of Energy) Gravity Well III would deal 2,577.41415 damage/second. This would be 35,550.54 damage over 20 seconds without buffs or 51,548.283 damage over 20 seconds with buffs. Yes, Gravity Well III would be very powerful when fully buffed, but it would require a massive skill point, trait, and gear investment in order to get the stats.

Reaching 310.5 particle generators requires 5 fleet embassy particle generator consoles, the nukara particle converter, the Adapted MACO Deflector, the Astrophysicist trait, and 36,000 skill points. In order to make the ability's hold effective, a player needs to invest an extra 12,000 skill points and 2 graviton generator universal consoles (Assimilated Module and Tachokinetic Converter). The conservation of energy trait and 1 copy of Attack Pattern Omega I is also required to up the damage further. On top of this, the player must ensure that the target remains in close proximity of the gravity well to actually deal the damage listed on the tooltip. There is a massive investment required to make this ability very powerful. If Gravity Well III functioned as well as the tooltip on Holodeck lists, then it would be on par with a fully specced Cannon Rapid Fire/Scatter Volley III, Eject Warp Plasma III, or Directed Energy Modulation III.

As for the Tribble version of Gravity Well III, the maximum you can get out of it is 1156.025, just 89.805 damage more than the current maximum specced Gravity Well I here on holodeck. Essentially, the changes to Gravity Well III (Tribble) has made it a barely better version of Gravity Well I (Holodeck) and Gravity Well I (Tribble) has gone from somewhat useful to having significant underperformance issues. Gravity Well III (Tribble) still remains as an underperforming ability over the current Gravity Well III (Holodeck).

Last edited by majortiraomega; 09-24-2013 at 03:42 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,001
# 22
09-24-2013, 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by canis36 View Post
What about some low end stats for comparison? Say no points invested, zero consoles, 15 aux?
going to test that now
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 86
# 23
09-24-2013, 04:14 PM
i wanted to test it with 15 aux and 0 in particle generators but my boffs all disappeard lol
any idea how to fix this?^^

anyways....i'm a bit confused now...
wasn't it the plan to fix Gravity Well 3?since GW1 did more damage than GW3...

when i look at the stats on holo and tribble i notice that the dmg from GW3 has been significantly reduced

GW3

1333 dmg on holodeck with 130 aux and 126 particle generator points
(that's what the tooltip says at least)

1000 dmg on tribble with the same stats as above
(and really doing that amount of dmg since i tested it earlier)
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,386
# 24
09-24-2013, 07:49 PM
So basically borticus nerfed science again while telling us he actually fixed. The Picard facepalm is just not enough here.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,001
# 25
09-24-2013, 07:49 PM
compiling data now, but something I hadn't ever noticed before but I may have missed is the Gravity well supposed to collapse if the primary target dies even if there are other affected targets caught in the GW and you still have time remaining on the duration.

Example the asteroid in the Mission:Minefield was down to a sliver of health fired the GW-3 at it pop asteroid disappears along with the gravity well is that normal or new?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,958
# 26
09-24-2013, 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapla1755 View Post
compiling data now, but something I hadn't ever noticed before but I may have missed is the Gravity well supposed to collapse if the primary target dies even if there are other affected targets caught in the GW and you still have time remaining on the duration.

Example the asteroid in the Mission:Minefield was down to a sliver of health fired the GW-3 at it pop asteroid disappears along with the gravity well is that normal or new?
That would also be a new. Gravity Well persists the full 20 seconds here on Holodeck. This is rather disappointing. Gravity Well I (Tribble) is 30% less effective than Gravity Well I (Holodeck) and Gravity Well III (Tribble) is basically a Gravity Well I (Holodeck) with an insignificant boost to damage. And now we learn that Gravity Well vanishes if the target is destroyed...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 27
09-24-2013, 09:44 PM
Someone try it again, and on something else. I thot we had Starbase 234 for it?

Either that, or something else broke while Tribbled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
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To be able to smile and forgive everything;
That's right, if we light up the dream in our hearts without averting our eyes;
We should be able to walk whatever tomorrow comes...

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Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,208
# 28
09-24-2013, 10:34 PM
GravWells dissipating if the primary target dies, you say? Easy to troubleshoot, if so. I will investigate and verify.
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Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 52
# 29
09-24-2013, 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
GravWells dissipating if the primary target dies, you say? Easy to troubleshoot, if so. I will investigate and verify.
I haven't been testing this in tribble so I can't say for most targets, but it has at least always done this when fired at the Nanite Transformer in ISE.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 830
# 30
09-24-2013, 11:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
GravWells dissipating if the primary target dies, you say? Easy to troubleshoot, if so. I will investigate and verify.
As it happens I just jumped onto tribble to test gravity well myself. Because my primary area of interest is the pull, and most of the feedback hear is damage. Any way before I get into that I can tell you how to replicate the problem of quick gravity well dissipation.

Go to the Japori system in tau Dewa. When ever you use a gravity well on one of the energy syphon drones that the syphon frigates spawn the well persists for just a moment and disappears as the drone pops. This holds true on tribble and Holodeck.

Ok Now to report on gravity wells pull. For this test I went to the aforementioned Japori system. I took my wells as it helps me reuse the ability a little more often so that I could compare gravity wells with more or less graviton generator skill in quicker succession and form a more accurate assessment.

First I would like to say that the pull of a gravity well III is certainly much better on tribble then holodeck. I am very happy to see that gravity wells will be useful again. I was also very happy with how the pull scaled with aux power so that it wasn't completely useless at lower levels but noticeably better when aux was high.

However I am very disappointed in the effect of the graviton generators skill. For my testing I used 4 very rare mk XII graviton generator consoles. Without those I had 110 graviton generator skill, with them I had 230.

If one sacrifices 4 console slots on consoles that represent the largest EC investment in a skill it is not unreasonable to expect a performance difference with and without that is noticeable.

Sadly I could not tell the difference between the pull of the wells with or without these consoles. So I used the wife test. The wife test is very scientific. The wife is a good arbiter because she knows nothing about graviton generators, gravity wells or STO and has no investment in it one way or the other.

I showed my wife the effect of 6 gravity wells on 6 groups of enemies. (that was as many as I could hold her attention for) And switched the consoles so that 3 times I was using them and 3 times I was not. Between each demonstration I had the wife look away while I changed or pretended to change the consoles.

Each time I asked my wife if she thought the pull of the gravity well was greater, smaller or about the same. Every time her answer was about the same.

Wife test result: Total graviton generator Failure.
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