Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 364
First of all, this is not intended to be your monthly "Give to the Defiant a Battle Cloak" thread, but only 2 sugestions, in the light (and hope) of recent devs statements about giving more 2 pc bonuses like the Romulans have and also giving another look at KDF Raiders aka Birds of Prey. And also keeping in mind how much OP just the Romulans ships are, not even talking about their boffs. Just strictly ship wise. And not to forget that these 2 ships are supossed to be pure (as in non-rom) FED and KDF top raiders, since the Defiant wants to be as close as a fed ship could get to a BoP.
These upgrades are not intended as an "I win" button, but a much needed upgrade to keep them competitive with the romulan ships.

I'll be brief on the Defiant first, since way too many threads are allready about this topic. Its about adding a Battle Cloak as a 2 pc bonus to cloak console+quad cannons. Maybe a +5 Aux Power too, to match a bit the Rom ships. A copy/paste of the curent Rom plasma bonus, in phaser flavor, would be OP considering that the Fleet Defiant allready has enuf buff with its 5 tac consoles. And for what its worth, a battle cloak would be canon aswell, since i remember from the DS9 show, when the Dominion captured DS9, the Defiant, along with IKS Rotarran, escaped cloaking while under enemy fire, wich what is a battle cloak is all about.

Now on the B'rel. When it was introduced in-game, its Enhanced Battle Cloak was considered too OP, since it was actually doing what it was designed and intented, wich is to fire torps and mines while cloaked. After a short time it was adjusted/balanced on its current form thus not so much working as design or intended.
I am suggesting here to upgrade the Enhanced Battle Cloak from its old, outdated form of "decloak for 3 secs when fire" to a partially, "Cloaking Barrage efect/mechanic" form. Basicly to replace the curent mechanic with an "Enter in Cloaking Barrage mode" for torps/mines only, when firing. It may sound OP, but is not, considering Romulan ships OPness, how nearly wortless the torps are now and the fact that it would still be briefly visible for the attacked target, so actions to decloak it would still be possible. And also would work more towards working as intended, to truly fire torps/mines under cloak.

As for the implementation of these upgrades, i dont think it should be a problem since are suported by the game. For the Defiant, there are allready in-game skills/abilities that change upon equiping a console, like the Scimitar cloak with shields on or the upgraded slipstream from the Vesta's 2 pc console bonus. As for the B'rel, the Cloaking Barrage mechanics allready exists aswell, only is needed to be modifiend for torps/mines only, and integrated into the Enhanced Battle Cloak.

Thoughts?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,085
# 2
09-23-2013, 09:14 AM
To be honest, i Agree for the most part, though i do feel there are a few differences that i prefer.

First of which is that ALL cloak should be battle cloak, because you're right, and it IS canon. When i push the button, i turn invisible, regardless of what's going on. That's how it worked in the shows and movies, and that's how it should work ingame. I don't agree that it should only be due to a 2 piece bonus set though, but that's how the very basic cloak should be.

Secondly, i feel that they need to do more to make it balance better. The first proposal is to tie it into both your health as well as your power levels. All cloaking devices draw an insane amount of power, which is why only the scimitar was able to have shields while cloaked. If my power levels are too low, my cloak shouldn't be anywhere near as effective, or if my ship is too badly damaged, there should be that cool effect where the cloak is in flux. As for the Klingon Torp cloak, they shouldn't be exposed while firing torps or mines, but should suffer a much greater vulnerability when doing so. That way it's a viable option, but very "at your own risk". While in terms of Federation cloak, they should be limited to no more than one ship of each class, which would leave a fighter (which could be the Caitian one) a carrier (maybe, but i'd be okay to not), and a science vessel.

Third, i feel that each faction needs it's own version of the advanced cloak for the higher tier/fleet/set versions. It's canon as well. Get rid of battle cloak and just make basic cloak work like canon, but then take it one step further. These cloaks are decades old by now, and this is the future, so we should have technology to match.


Feds) Intangible Cloak: It can pass through anything, but will be more vulnerable to AOE effects as "subspace damage" from Sci abilities or certain torpedo after effects.

KDF) Battle cloak+: They can now fire beams as well, but will suffer from greater speed reduction as well will take much more damage when attacked. Being cloaked and firing weapons would be too great of a power drain from all the other systems, including structural integrity.

Rom) These guys already have the advanced cloak abilities from the set bonus, so they're good there.


As a side note, i've posted it before, but i would also like to see a Cloak Buoy added to a faction as well. It would work like a turret, but instead of firing, it places a 5km cloak bubble, which would be great for ambushes and minefields. The downside here is that anything in the bubble is cloaked, even enemies, it has little to no health so it goes boom very easily, but since it would require a very powerful energy source, it would have a really strong AOE explosion that would hurt friendlies as well. But this last one is just me tossing out a casual idea.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 3
09-23-2013, 10:35 AM
I like the ideas on both vessels but could only give me support if the remaining KDF BoP line of vessels was given back some of what was taken from them in "balance" for them having Battle Cloaks to begin with in STO.

Be that an additional Universal slot that is Ensign or just simply better shield modifier or hull points.
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Last edited by bitemepwe; 09-23-2013 at 02:03 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,006
# 4
09-23-2013, 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosul33 View Post
First of all, this is not intended to be your monthly "Give to the Defiant a Battle Cloak" thread, but only 2 sugestions, in the light (and hope) of recent devs statements about giving more 2 pc bonuses like the Romulans have and also giving another look at KDF Raiders aka Birds of Prey. And also keeping in mind how much OP just the Romulans ships are, not even talking about their boffs. Just strictly ship wise. And not to forget that these 2 ships are supossed to be pure (as in non-rom) FED and KDF top raiders, since the Defiant wants to be as close as a fed ship could get to a BoP.
These upgrades are not intended as an "I win" button, but a much needed upgrade to keep them competitive with the romulan ships.

I'll be brief on the Defiant first, since way too many threads are allready about this topic. Its about adding a Battle Cloak as a 2 pc bonus to cloak console+quad cannons. Maybe a +5 Aux Power too, to match a bit the Rom ships. A copy/paste of the curent Rom plasma bonus, in phaser flavor, would be OP considering that the Fleet Defiant allready has enuf buff with its 5 tac consoles. And for what its worth, a battle cloak would be canon aswell, since i remember from the DS9 show, when the Dominion captured DS9, the Defiant, along with IKS Rotarran, escaped cloaking while under enemy fire, wich what is a battle cloak is all about.

Now on the B'rel. When it was introduced in-game, its Enhanced Battle Cloak was considered too OP, since it was actually doing what it was designed and intented, wich is to fire torps and mines while cloaked. After a short time it was adjusted/balanced on its current form thus not so much working as design or intended.
I am suggesting here to upgrade the Enhanced Battle Cloak from its old, outdated form of "decloak for 3 secs when fire" to a partially, "Cloaking Barrage efect/mechanic" form. Basicly to replace the curent mechanic with an "Enter in Cloaking Barrage mode" for torps/mines only, when firing. It may sound OP, but is not, considering Romulan ships OPness, how nearly wortless the torps are now and the fact that it would still be briefly visible for the attacked target, so actions to decloak it would still be possible. And also would work more towards working as intended, to truly fire torps/mines under cloak.

As for the implementation of these upgrades, i dont think it should be a problem since are suported by the game. For the Defiant, there are allready in-game skills/abilities that change upon equiping a console, like the Scimitar cloak with shields on or the upgraded slipstream from the Vesta's 2 pc console bonus. As for the B'rel, the Cloaking Barrage mechanics allready exists aswell, only is needed to be modifiend for torps/mines only, and integrated into the Enhanced Battle Cloak.

Thoughts?
So under this proposal the Defiant gets at Battle Cloak with 5 Tac consoles and the B'rel gets something it can already do well?

I thought this wasn't a "this is not intended to be your monthly "Give to the Defiant a Battle Cloak" thread.?
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 5
09-23-2013, 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapla1755 View Post
So under this proposal the Defiant gets at Battle Cloak with 5 Tac consoles and the B'rel gets something it can already do well?
Shocking isnt?
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 794
# 6
09-23-2013, 03:21 PM
I fly the Defiant and simply say NO to a battle cloak. Remember Defiant wasn't built with a cloaking device, it was loaned one from the Romulans. The Federation was supposed to have cloaking technology so we should be thankful they gave us the loaned cloak with Defiant as it is.

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,085
# 7
09-24-2013, 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpacknz View Post
I fly the Defiant and simply say NO to a battle cloak. Remember Defiant wasn't built with a cloaking device, it was loaned one from the Romulans. The Federation was supposed to have cloaking technology so we should be thankful they gave us the loaned cloak with Defiant as it is.
I have a Reman bridge officer, the full reman set, and a few romulan doffs.... By your logic, i would be able to use battle cloak because it's "on loan" from all the romulans on my ship.

Still though, i do like the ideas of the OP, though i would much rather have all cloaks work as canon over how they're done in game currently.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,729
# 8
09-24-2013, 12:33 AM
I would gladly exchange the Fleet Defiant as-is with the Fleet B'Rel as-is.

Do you have any idea how much damage i could do with a Cannon capable ship that has all uni slots?

Seriously. If i could nail that down i would have a very nifty little tactical/science alpha striking glass cannon.

I don't understand why whenever feds want someting niftty its no no no its ours, but then you get mad that the ship we want a ship to be like is sooooo awful or something.

Keep it up with the 5 tac consoles cause frankly i usually make at least one of those the cloak if im using it. 5 tac consoles is too much unless you are using 3 for energy 2 for torps which is still a bit much i think.

But really i like th OP's ideas they are not too bad.

Maybe instead of harping you could add what you would like to see added to your precious B'Rel in a 2-piece bonus.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,539
# 9
09-24-2013, 01:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnshadow27 View Post
Maybe instead of harping you could add what you would like to see added to your precious B'Rel in a 2-piece bonus.
Ok.

I'd rather have BoPs buffed (primarily with hull and shields) to be more in-line and balanced due to how Romulans have changed the game so much, and no 2-piece bonus should be needed to do that.

A 2-piece bonus should be just that: A bonus. An extra for using a particular set, nothing more.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,729
# 10
09-24-2013, 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
Ok.

I'd rather have BoPs buffed (primarily with hull and shields) to be more in-line and balanced due to how Romulans have changed the game so much, and no 2-piece bonus should be needed to do that.

A 2-piece bonus should be just that: A bonus. An extra for using a particular set, nothing more.
As nice as i assume that would be, All ships should have a buff to reduce the OP that Romulan ships brought in.

While i am definetly a proponent of the B'Rel getting a buff to its shield to a .9 or a .99, malbe also a third Weapon slot in the back. But with its nearly Epic Boff seating giving too much more hull than it has already would be massively uncool.(well massively is a bit extreme)

I would like to see you guys get one of your favorite ships buffed up in some ways, but you have to admit between the enhanced battle cloak and that boff seating she's a "tough little ship"
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
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