Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
A lot has been made of cheese, premades (or pugmades) roflstomping, and how some generally feel, me included, that it is driving players away from PvP. I had hoped to introduce this idea in the PvPBC Senate, but that has been cancelled for various reasons.

Rather than just accept things the "way they are", I offer this to the PvP Community at large (albeit, more focused on the Elite Players/Fleets).

In preparing for the Senate discussion, I reviewed as many Tournament rules I could find on the forums, and there are some generally accepted rules that we expect eachother to abide by in a tournament. There tournaments are mainly attended by the big PvP Fleets in general, and seveal of these fleets have hosted the tournaments with similar rules.

The idea here is to codify some generally accepted principals in PvP of what is broken, or OP, and as players agree not to use these things in queue matches.

Player Code Of Conduct
----------------------

I will refrain from using the following in PvP:
  1. Yellowstone, Elite Interceptors, & Romulan Drone Ship Carrier Pets
  2. Scramble Sensor Duty Officers (But I can use Scramble Sensors)
  3. Boarding Parties
  4. D'Kora EMP Burst
  5. Graviton Pulse
  6. Temporal Inversion Field

Team Code Of Conduct
-----------------------

When we create a team to engage in PvP, in addition to the general player items above, we further will:
  1. We will not have more than 3 Captains of the same type (Tac/Sci/Eng)
  2. We will not have more than 2 of the same ship (JHAS, Mobius, Bop, T'Varo, etc)
  3. We will not use more than 4 Hangar Bays during any match.

For the Elite PvP Fleets... Personally, I think that your win/loss percentage in Queue matches won't change much (if at all) as a lot does have to do with team coordination, and experience, but I do believe that the Queue matches would be made "more fun, and inviting" to new PvP players, and potentially closer. Even if the Pug/Inexperienced team is using cheese/spam/broken, chances are that against a well coordinated, experienced team... the cheese won't produce a victory.

I, for one, have no problem with the player banned items (I have generally unslotted anything that caused an eruption within the PvP Forums anyways). Nor do I have any issue asking my fleetmates to adhere to this as well. I am by no means, in a large PvP fleet... my fleet has only a few PvP'ers other than myself.

It has been said by some that "who are we to tell other players what they can and can not use", and to a very large extent, I would agree with that sentiment. However, from a fleet perspective, why couldn't the fleet set guidelines in order to protect its reputation? How many times in these very forums have we seen "But I saw members of your fleet..." in response to an item that you may have been railing against. We can wait until the cows come home before we get the balance pass, or fixes to universally agreed broken items, or we can take the initative, and agree amonst ourselves to police our own activity.

One final word, on "testing". I've seen in matches teams apologizing for using broken gear because they were "testing". Frankly, and someone please correct me if I am wrong here... but if you have enough players to field a 5v5 team, you could do a private match and perform your tests without roflstomping the queues.

Anyways, just my thoughts... agree? disagree? sending someone to my house to break my legs?

Johnny
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 2
09-25-2013, 01:28 PM
All I have to say is "good luck", and I hope you're dressed for the occasion.


In all seriousness, I think the best thing you could possibly hope for is a voluntary system where interested players could add some moniker to their ship name to indicate their support for the idea.

Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
# 3
09-25-2013, 01:32 PM
I almost didn't post it... while looking for the tournament rules... I also saw the plethora of comments regarding those rules. BUT, the rules that I mentioned were pretty universally applied to tournaments going back a ways (with obvious additions/deletions as new items come out, or items are nerfed/fixed (Elachi Rift console (no only slows, and takes weapons offline), and Nukara webmines (insane damage has been reduced) are two recent examples).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 4
09-25-2013, 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny111971 View Post
I almost didn't post it... while looking for the tournament rules... I also saw the plethora of comments regarding those rules. BUT, the rules that I mentioned were pretty universally applied to tournaments going back a ways (with obvious additions/deletions as new items come out, or items are nerfed/fixed (Elachi Rift console (no only slows, and takes weapons offline), and Nukara webmines (insane damage has been reduced) are two recent examples).

Yep, all the rules are reasonable.

Here is the issue though.


The PvP fleets who join a tournament will prune their team and make sure they fit the rules comp - anyone who intends to be on the team knows they need to make any changes necessary.

What you're asking goes further, and is part of the deeper strife that Cryptics largely hands off policy has fostered.


Setting up this kind of rules requires almost a daily policing of everyone in your fleet. This is not a good thing for many fleets.


Not every fleet mate cares about tournaments, they log on when they can, they get some pewpew in. They log off.


And some fleets, like my own for example, specifically have rules against "build policing" where you outright tell others what they can or can't use.


This is why I said the best approach might be a voluntary one, where interested players could display their support in the name of their ship with some simple, easy to recognize, suffix or prefix.

Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
# 5
09-25-2013, 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
And some fleets, like my own for example, specifically have rules against "build policing" where you outright tell others what they can or can't use.
That surprises me actually. While I understand the thought behind it, you and I have talked more than once about how certain fleets are unfairly "under attack", it would seem to me that fleets who have gained a a bad rep, would be the first to want to make sure that their players (representing the fleet as a whole) would be playing it straight.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 6
09-25-2013, 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny111971 View Post
That surprises me actually. While I understand the thought behind it, you and I have talked more than once about how certain fleets are unfairly "under attack", it would seem to me that fleets who have gained a a bad rep, would be the first to want to make sure that their players (representing the fleet as a whole) would be playing it straight.
All I can say is that not every fleet has a standard pyramidal hierarchy.

Some do, some don't.

Anyway, good luck with this.

Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 7
09-25-2013, 02:38 PM
For tournaments, private matches and personal honour systems, we as a fleet are all in favor. We cater to lots of things for matches.

However.

I as a fleet leader have no power to force my players to use or not use any aspect of the game. And even if I did, I wouldn't. Testing weird builds is what makes PVP fun. I have no right to say they can't bring things into the queues that they pay good money for.

However however,

We do look down on anyone using broken abilities. That's not fair play.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
# 8
09-25-2013, 02:53 PM
Fair response (both Regulus and Ulti).

My main concern was the queue matches themselves. Not so much Private matches, and Tournaments (as these generally abide by preset rules (many I borrowed) anyways. The queues are, unfortunately, generally the first (probably worst) and last PvP interaction many have.

Would you support the idea, even promote the idea, within your circle of influence (of course, understanding that it would be voluntary)?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 292
# 9
09-25-2013, 03:11 PM
The above rules are great....but.
If anyone in the PvP community actually cared about growing said community they would stop bringing their premades into the public queues and stomping helpless pugs.
Why people need to bring a 3 Scimi (with drones), 2 wells team into the public queues is beyond me, honestly.
Last two nights on the fed side I've ended up with at least 3 new players on my teams and it's sad to see them get focus targeted over and over. And stomped over and over.
In team chat talking, they really have no clue and are disheartened. They're like "OMG, what just happened?" "Is PvP really this hard?" "This sux" "So much for PvP" etc.
If you want to test new builds, test them among your fleetmates or in TD. If you want to bring 3 or 4 fleet buddies and are looking for a challenge hit up TD or use Opvp.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 78
# 10
09-25-2013, 03:15 PM
I do not agree with this thread

Last edited by hygtkilo98; 09-25-2013 at 04:17 PM.
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