Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,825
# 31
10-01-2013, 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
As you say, they are the same colors. What changes between pieces is the textures that those colors are being applied on. The costume guys do a lot to ensure that any given costume set works together, but if you're grabbing the shoulders from one set, and the shirt from another, it might not match up exactly.
But that's my point.
You can't mix the wells uniform with the Academy trousers for instance without getting two different shades of black. That was just an example, almost every non-plastic looking uniform has a different (internal) color palette.
Very annoying...

-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-
T6 Guardian Class design / A 25th century Ambassador refit
Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,035
# 32
10-02-2013, 05:50 AM
I don't understand why all factions don't just have an unrestricted color palette.
I mean seriously, you can already make some pretty garish fed uniforms with the existing colors.
Opening up the palettes completely can't really make it any worse, and would in fact add a lot more freedom to character customization.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,825
# 33
10-02-2013, 06:22 AM
I mean what's the point of a uniform creator tool if you can't mix uniforms in the first place?
Why did the devs use different color palettes on the various uniforms at all?
(Most of the time even different color palettes on the same uniform)

Example:




The shoulder part is NOT black! Not to speak of the colored collar, which is much brighter than the chest color. (check it in-game you'll see what i mean)

I mean we actually pay REAL money for this, i expect good quality for it.

-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-
T6 Guardian Class design / A 25th century Ambassador refit

Last edited by yreodred; 10-02-2013 at 06:30 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,625
# 34
10-02-2013, 10:01 PM
You know, I almost feel sorry for the environmental artists when they have to read this ... almost because you still havent fixed what you broken in Season 7.

I know why things are as they are, well almost ... yep people type things like that because Microsoft paint+fairy dust is what makes things in the game work and I am a old fart that knows, yes at one point in times that was true to a degree ... if you dont mind early PS2 era graphics or to be more MMO like, Lineage II type graphics.
Romulans ...
You start your career off as a simple farmer... then you launch yourself into a galaxy filled with intrigue, power plays, and high stakes games of interstellar conflict, as your career careens upwards onto your final destination ... a level capped Dilithium and Fleet Mark Farmer!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 35
10-02-2013, 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iconians View Post
This is also why certain alien species only have access to particular hairstyles. The character editor has the ability to do a lot more than it currently does, but it's largely up to CBS Studios to decide what is allowed and what isn't.
Is it CBS' fault that Romulans don't have facial hair options?

Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,382
# 36
10-03-2013, 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Is it CBS' fault that Romulans don't have facial hair options?
It might be? I honestly don't know, and I'm not willing to speculate on that particular issue. But it's certainly possible given past issues.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?u=91851766000&type=sigpic&dateline=13403  39147
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,100
# 37
10-03-2013, 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
But that's my point.
You can't mix the wells uniform with the Academy trousers for instance without getting two different shades of black. That was just an example, almost every non-plastic looking uniform has a different (internal) color palette.
Very annoying...
That's because the engine lays colours over the texture already present. And the Textures can be any number of colours. Very bothersome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iconians View Post
It might be? I honestly don't know, and I'm not willing to speculate on that particular issue. But it's certainly possible given past issues.
It is. Rommies had beards on tribble.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,825
# 38
10-03-2013, 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
That's because the engine lays colours over the texture already present. And the Textures can be any number of colours. Very bothersome.
There is surely a way to make colors less transparent. I am not a 3d artist but i am versed in painting software and i am sure that there is a way to put colors on any texture without distorting the initial color.

I would be ok if it only where about saturations, but the darkest black should look like black, no matter what uniform you put on.

-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-
T6 Guardian Class design / A 25th century Ambassador refit
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,023
# 39
10-03-2013, 11:37 PM
Each material likely has 4 main textures assigned to it. (there could be more for other things)
Diffuse - Usually the "Color" texture. In our case, these are mostly black and white.
Mask - Each color channel of the texture (RGBA) has a separate mask, which is used when applying colors
Normal - A bump map. This creates the bumps/wrinkles/etc.
Specular - Creates the specular highlights in certain areas.

The Diffuse textures actually have no color (for most uniforms). They are black and white. The color you select is masked off according to another texture (the Mask) to certain areas, and then multiplied over the original texture.

In a fully, evenly lit environment (which nothing in STO is), the color you would see on screen would be a product of the diffuse texture, and the color you picked. Pixels on the diffuse that are 100% white, will show purely the color you picked. However, there is a large variety of values of pixels, to give you the sense that you're wearing a shirt, or pants, and not just some single color paper cut out. So, if the pixel is darker than white, your chosen color is modified (multiplied) by that value.
Now add lighting into it, and you have a whole lot of different looks for any given color you chose.

In the cases cited earlier, the color of the TNG uniform is brighter on the texture, because it sticks out more than most of the rest. As such, it's final color multiplication would end up brighter. However, in addition, the color is pointed upward, and catching most of the light from above, while the chest is pointed sideways, and only catching SOME of the light from above.
-The Artist formerly known as Tumerboy



Quote:
Originally Posted by mightybobcnc View Post
Tacofangs, what is your beef with where's Sulu?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 407
# 40
10-04-2013, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
Each material likely has 4 main textures assigned to it. (there could be more for other things)
Diffuse - Usually the "Color" texture. In our case, these are mostly black and white.
Mask - Each color channel of the texture (RGBA) has a separate mask, which is used when applying colors
Normal - A bump map. This creates the bumps/wrinkles/etc.
Specular - Creates the specular highlights in certain areas.

The Diffuse textures actually have no color (for most uniforms). They are black and white. The color you select is masked off according to another texture (the Mask) to certain areas, and then multiplied over the original texture.

In a fully, evenly lit environment (which nothing in STO is), the color you would see on screen would be a product of the diffuse texture, and the color you picked. Pixels on the diffuse that are 100% white, will show purely the color you picked. However, there is a large variety of values of pixels, to give you the sense that you're wearing a shirt, or pants, and not just some single color paper cut out. So, if the pixel is darker than white, your chosen color is modified (multiplied) by that value.
Now add lighting into it, and you have a whole lot of different looks for any given color you chose.

In the cases cited earlier, the color of the TNG uniform is brighter on the texture, because it sticks out more than most of the rest. As such, it's final color multiplication would end up brighter. However, in addition, the color is pointed upward, and catching most of the light from above, while the chest is pointed sideways, and only catching SOME of the light from above.
Then I beg to question, how come we can't get the option to edit these layers as well as the colors? It's possible in the game engine to do that as it can be done in Champions. Because if I want to mix and match parts that have different textures I can make sure the same parts have the same texture. Why some are lit from above and other from the side seems like an error that wouldn't bee to hard to fix. Just rotate the texture 45 degrees.

But allowing us to decide what textures to use as well as the specular areas would be a great improvement. Giving us a wider range of palettes for the metal parts as well as the colors so we can truly get uniforms to be just that uniform (which is their purpose). Of course that should go for badges, pins and patches as well.

Talking about patches. They could use some love too. Adding all the upper and lower case Greek letters. Adding an other (third) layer to put in the images on. And allowing us to add specular parts to them. Plus there really should be a place on the Fleet Holding's main areas where the patch is shown as either a huge patch or as a banner/flag. Maybe even on the outside of the station & mine. But preferable on the inside map. Make it a special project, just put it in there.
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