Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 86
# 11
10-06-2013, 03:38 AM
Example Builds:

To be filled in. So far, I just have my own build to share, since I don't have the time to theorize up some other builds. If any of you guys would like to post your own Skill Planner links to awesome builds, I could post them up here too.

My T'varo Build: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?...varotorpspam_0

BOFFs are all Romulans w. Subterfuge and Romulan Operative Traits, my Captain has all space traits.

DOFFs are 3 PWoffs, 1 Aux while Cloaked Technician, and 1 Sensor Scan debuff Sensors Officer (though this last spot could honestly be a lot of things).

This build is very "tight," in that I find there is very little wasted space on my ship. The Dual PH, Dual HE, Dual APD, and 1 Aux2SIF are all a combined effort into hull tanking, and I keep them constantly cycling. Also, if anyone tries to shoot at me, they are instantly debuffed by my APD. DPB and THY are obvious choices to boost my weapons, EPTE helps whenever I need a boost of speed. Lastly, TB is that essential hold I need to make use of my slower torps and mines.

Console choices should seem intuitive. All four of my forward torps are autofiring, and they are all pretty powerful. Aft torps deliver spiking and some utility; a HY TDD will disrupt movement, visuals, and cooldowns, and the trics obviously add crushing hits and sometimes anomalies on their own. Of course, if I'm not concerned about things like farming Ker'rat or about ranking top spots in PvE, and if I want to ramp up my damage into brutal levels, I'll swap out the TDD for a tricobalt torp, and swap the Tric mines for Web Mines.

A typical attack run goes something like this: Approach up to 5km, deploy DPT and hit EM or EPTE (so I don't kill myself!). Pass over the target, deploy mines, Tractor Beam, and Sensor Scan. Slow down, fire aft Breen Cluster and other HY torpedo, and then swing around to bring forward torps to bear. This part is tricky, because it's likely that I can run outside of 5km and lose my hold on the target, so careful piloting is required here. If all goes well, the target will be receiving crushing blows from all my torpedoes and mines converging at once. If he's not deat yet, engage with forward torpedoes. Rinse and repeat. Sometimes, in PvP, a player might wise up to this strike and immediately deploy his counters to your tractor beams and DoTs, so sometimes I bait him into blowing these abilities with a "meta-strike," pretending to make a full attack run without using my really long cooldown abilities. Of course, I save the Subnuke for the instant he tries to launch HE.

I've truly fallen in love with this ship. I enjoy my other toons fine enough, but nothing is more satisfying then flying this Warbird. I still tinker with a few things here and there, trying out new torpedoes and consoles. I was considering (going against my own advice, yes) respeccing, redistributing my PW Specialization Points into Shied Emitters and Systems. That way, while not fully minmaxed, I can try out other ships as torp boats without having to reroll another Romulan. I was also thinking about slapping on an Aceton Assimilator for some extral trolllololol to FAW-happy cruisers.

Fed Recon Science Ship: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?...boatskeleton_0

Fed Nebula Retrofit: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?...boatskeleton_0

These ships are very much "skeleton builds," where I've only specified the weapons, tac consoles, tac abilities, and low-level eng and sci abilities. The other slots are more or less up to you in terms of what kind of science you'd like to do. You could go heavy in particle abilities + CC with Grav Well, FBP, and EWP on that engi spot on the nebula (not a far cry from how I fly my Wells), you could go heavy in shield drains w. Tach Beam and TB with the Doff or power drains w. ES or TR, and conceivably both ships can become great snoopers with the nebula console.

The Recon is themed all transphasic, and the Nebula is themed all plasma, though swapping these weapon choices would also be fine.

Last edited by icepiraka; 10-09-2013 at 05:37 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 12
10-06-2013, 03:54 AM
*rousing applause*

I'm too specialized into energy weapons and PtG tricks to use torps properly, but even I learnt something from that wall of text!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
What should I wish upon the endless universe;
To be able to smile and forgive everything;
That's right, if we light up the dream in our hearts without averting our eyes;
We should be able to walk whatever tomorrow comes...

I am V. Adm. Kha Yuung, and I approve of this message.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 86
# 13
10-06-2013, 03:57 AM
Lol, I just realized I went onto the second page!

If you actually read the whole thing, you are amazing.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 14
10-06-2013, 04:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
Lol, I just realized I went onto the second page!

If you actually read the whole thing, you are amazing.
Actually I only got up to the torps dossier bit, then i started scrolling to see how long it was, so by 2nd page I was already so impressed I had to post first!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
What should I wish upon the endless universe;
To be able to smile and forgive everything;
That's right, if we light up the dream in our hearts without averting our eyes;
We should be able to walk whatever tomorrow comes...

I am V. Adm. Kha Yuung, and I approve of this message.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 529
# 15
10-06-2013, 05:05 AM
great guide, already have a kar'fi built much along the lines you described here, tac captain, only the breen cluster though for transphasic, i do brute force down shields, and bypass with omega, cluster and rom torps. fore, breen, hargh'peng, rom plasma, omega plasma,
aft kcb, (allows me to have one more weapon forward firing) old borg quantum, another hargh'peng

primary mode is forward firing, sci abilities require that as well so aft was slots were more what can i throw in there that's reasonably effective than trying for massive damage.

gw1, and gw3 which groups up enemies very well and makes all the forward torps that much more effective since several have their own small aoe's

a lot of hit or miss building it, (you should have written your guide months ago :p)swapping out torps, trying to get the steadiest to target damage possible from just forward weapons. and being able to sit at extreme range and pound stuff to death, max aux, high shields makes it a much tougher ship. oh, and fer'jai frigates. all in all, i'd say a kar'fi makes a great torp boat.

should probably use (and did at one time) pets with disruptors (for the proc), but the fer'jai's are sturdier, and their occasional hy trico is nice especially if it lands in a clustered gw group.
Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 18,560
# 16
10-06-2013, 07:04 AM
First, let me apologize for not completely reading it. Second, let me apologize for not having had enough caffeine for the parts I did attempt to read completely. I'll likely come back to edit this later...

I wanted to mention in regard to Plasma Torpedoes in PvP the following though:

Yes, HE is a major bane to Plasma DoTs. An HE1 can cleanse over 9000 Plasma DoTs (okay, that's hyperbole - but not really, an HE1 is a full cleanse of anything it affects and imho that's too much).

I oft wished that one of my Eng that ran a Plastorp boat was a Sci instead for the SNB. I ended up doing a respec on him from Projectile to Energy eventually. That was not simply because of HE, mind you.

AtB HE has an average uptime of 1.5x that of non-AtB HE. It's going to vary through the AtB cycles, but it averages out to about 1.5x. That means as long as it's ticking, it's going to be cleansing any PDoTs.

You've also got folks that run the Borg set, where those ticks and other damage can trigger a cleanse.

I did the respec when Cryptic added the WCE DOFF that has a 40% chance to cleanse all negative effects on a player with the use of an EPtX ability. It not only does the cleanse, but it also ticks itself for a short period - periodically continuing to cleanse. There's a good chance that happens every 15s.

When they added that DOFF (yes, in one of my rare non-broken/not-broken/math complaints), I complained out the wahzoo about it. I believe cleanses are too strong, had discussed that numerous times, and well - I didn't have any Excedrin around for the /facepalm I did for that DOFF.

I think you did a nifty job pointing out some of the issues that arise with targetable torps. So yeah, your Hyper Plasma - your HY Omega - your HY Plamsa - your Destabilized Plasma (Beach Ball o' Burnin' Love!) - and yeah, Plasma Mines (any mines)...are susceptible to the masses of spam out there. Yes, players will complain that your stuff is spam while completely ignoring that they're spamming there stuff too (happens with many things).

Between all the FAWspam boats, Photonic Fleets, Nimbus Pirates, Pets (Pets with FAW), Grav Wells, Singularity Jumps, Tyken's Rifts, Warp Plasma, Tractor Beam Repulsors, Cannon Scatter Volleys, Torp Spreads...well, you get the idea, right?

I've had a target that didn't know I was there, just happen to pop FAW to deal with something else (or because they've got it on their spacebutton and they're just mashing it knowing that it will target things they don't even need to see) at the same time that I launched the Beachball...and...I was dead before I even saw the Beachball on my screen. There's also that Pesky Pet that likes to fly into the HY Omega or Beachball. That Pesky Pet may take the form of different pets, but you know it's that damn Pesky Pet!

As a pseudo aside, can't remember if it was mentioned - but since Projectile Weapon Training affects the DoT...both Tac Team and the T4 Nukara passive Aux Power Config - Offense can boost the amount of damage from the DoTs.

Oh well, off to get some more caffeine (I love torpedoes and I love to complain that Cryptic hates them)...
Willard the Rat, Klingon, Sci (60), U.S.S. Tong Vey, Geneva Command Battlecruiser (FT6), Inner Circle
Meena, Ferasan, Tac (60), I.K.S. vagh SuD bas, B'rel Retrofit Bird-of-Prey (T5U), Ho'ragh
[WIP] No-Fleet, T5U B'rel Retrofit Build


Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,439
# 17
10-06-2013, 07:25 AM
Awesome thread. And serendipitous timing too, as I've wanted to try a torp boat build with one of my sci characters flying a T'Varo.
Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 494
# 18
10-06-2013, 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
Lol, I just realized I went onto the second page!

If you actually read the whole thing, you are amazing.
I read the whole thing professor, it took me 30 minutes and I agree with most of it. I've also learned more about torpedo boats. Normally I like my ships to be balanced (one forward torpedo, one aft, one turret, one cannon and/or one beam).

I've retired my beloved Breen Transphasic Cluster and hargh'peng torpedos because they couldn't handle multiple targets. Instead I've used my XI Quantum (DMGX3) and the rapid reload Transphasic as my two for torpedos and a XI Plasma (DMGX3) as my aft. Since I fly a JHDC and I sometimes have to take on a fleet of Borg while my teammates handle a gateway or cube, I must be able to target multiple targets at once.

I do have this question Professor icepiraka; In the past I wouldn't be caught dead without my beloved hargh'peng (I just love that purple smoke and the purple shock wave). How much damage does the AOE do to sheilds of the other ships? I can see the 15 second of radiation hargh'peng does to a target (like a borg cube), but when the AOE shock wave comes out I've noticed that some of the borg spheres aren't even touched.

And professor, I've noticed that a hargh'peng files to it's target faster than a Quantum (thus making it the fastest torpedo in the game). I know many don't want to believe it, but I've tested it time and time again.

Last edited by ataloss; 10-06-2013 at 08:21 AM. Reason: typo
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 18,560
# 19
10-06-2013, 08:55 AM
Third, let me apologize for what are apparently going to be scattered replies touching upon things here or there. DOFFin' while waiting for the caffeine to kick in from the Diet Pepsi (Diet Pepsi is no Diet Dew, but the store was out - oh the humanity!).

Regarding shields...starting with non-Res vs. Res.

With energy weapons, the following takes place...generally speaking.

non-Res: 90% damage to shields, 10% damage to hull as bleedthrough.
Res: 90% damage to shields, 5% damage to hull as bleedthrough, 5% damage disappears into the ether.

With projectile weapons, the following takes place...generally speaking.

non-Res: 90% damage to shields, 10% damage to hull as bleedthrough.
Res: 95% damage to shields, 5% damage to hull as bleedthrough.

Yep, that's right...woot, woot - projectile weapons don't lose 5% of their damage against Resilient shields! Yeah, enjoy that for the second it lasts - because as icepiraka stated, shields have that innate 75% kinetic damage reduction on top of any other damage reduction. So it's not +5% damage, it's more like +1.25% damage before other reductions...meh. So when you look at the damage reduction of shields vs. kinetic, it gets pretty bad.

While icepiraka stated/but did not want to get into that discussion about how evil shields are to kinetic damage...heh...I'm going to! Though, it might not be what you think.

Let's take a Mk 0/Std DBB and a Mk 0/Std Quantum Torpedo. No skills, no buffs, but Weapon Power is at 125 for the DBB.

DBB 325 DPV
Quant 1503 DPV

Let's drop those out against minimalist shield reduction, eh? 15 shield power? non-Resilient shields? 4.2% damage reduction.

DBB 325 * 0.9 = 292.5 * 0.958 = 280.215 DPV
Quant 1503 * 0.9 = 1352.7 * 0.25 = 338.175 * 0.958 = 323.97165 DPV

Let's try that against 130 shield power (36.4% reduction) and Resilient shields, eh?

DBB 325 * 0.9 = 292.5 * 0.636 = 186.03 DPV
Quant 1503 * 0.95 = 1427.85 * 0.25 = 356.9625 * 0.636 = 227.02815 DPV

Hey, that looks like the Quant is better than the DBB! DPV is Damage Per Volley. It's not DPS.

DBB 186.03 DPV = 148.824 DPS
Quant 227.02815 DPV = 26.709194117647058823529411764706 DPS

D'OH! Course, that's part of why icepiraka mentioned running those 3x PWO DOFFs...for the CD reduction on the torps.

Some might be thinking that those examples are pretty far fetched - no skills, no consoles, Std weapons? You're right! Let's go again with VR Mk XII weapons, 9 Weapon Training, 9 Energy/Projectile Weapons, the Omega Weapon Training Passive, and 3 VR MK XII energy/kinetic specific consoles. No buffs, but we'll look at that vs. shields.

Versus 4.2% non-Res...

DBB 1403.5 * 0.9 = 1263.15 * 0.958 = 1210.0977 DPV
Quant 6490.5 * 0.9 = 5841.45 * 0.25 = 1460.3625 * 0.958 = 1399.027275 DPV

Versus 36.4% Res...

DBB 1403.5 * 0.9 = 1263.15 * 0.636 = 803.3634 DPV
Quant 6490.5 * 0.95 = 6165.975 * 0.25 = 1541.49375 * 0.636 = 980.390025 DPV

DBB DPS 642.69072
Quant DPS 115.34000294117647058823529411765

Remember your PWO DOFFs! Ahem, anyway...still looks like for the single shot, for that DPV, the Quant is better, right? Well, you're not spiking without buffs - so let's add some buffs!

We'll buff against just the 130 Shield Power Resilient shields, eh? We'll do an APA3, APO3, add in a Rombush, and compare BO3 vs. HY3!

DBB 23859.5 * 0.9 = 21473.55 * 0.636 = 13657.1778 DPV
Quant 38293.95 * 0.95 = 36379.2525 * 0.25 = 9094.813125 * 0.636 = 5784.3011475 DPV

Da Fuq? Yep, tada...welcome to the party - the music sucks, it's too bright, the beer is flat, the chips are stale, and you've got gas.

How about this one then, eh? DBB w/0 Consoles vs. Quant w/5x Consoles

DBB 18887 * 0.9 = 16998.3 * 0.636 = 10810.9188 DPV
Quant 43614.57 * 0.95 = 41433.8415 * 0.25 = 10358.460375 * 6587.9807985

Yeah, that last one...it's wasn't just gas...oh noes! Yep, a 0 Console BO3 does more damage against shields than a 5x Console HY3 does. Course, that's because of how Cryptic is looking at things. Check this out...5x BO3 vs. 0x HY3.

DBB 27174.5 DPV
Quant 30313.02 DPV

Wait, what's that? That's the 5x Console BO3 and 0x Console HY3 hitting hull. Yep, a 0 Console HY3 does more damage against hull than a 5x Console BO3 does.

Cryptic's gone the route of Energy for Shields and Kinetic for Hull...for some reason. I say for some reason, because I don't know about you - but er, I might have watched an episode or two of Star Trek - might have seen the first movie in theaters as a kid...etc, etc, etc...and yeah, that's not the way it worked. Still, that's the way Cryptic went with it.

And of course, that's led to the following being somewhat common in certain areas of the game: Console Up the BO, take down the shields, smack the hull with the HY. But of course, that kind of fell into disfavor because of all the procs that can heal shields. The same BO shot that drops shields can actually raise shields again - so the torp tickles shields instead of smacks hull.

Oh well, I'll be back in a bit with more apologies and more rambling. Really have to thank icepiraka for putting the guide together - there's oodles of awesome information there.
Willard the Rat, Klingon, Sci (60), U.S.S. Tong Vey, Geneva Command Battlecruiser (FT6), Inner Circle
Meena, Ferasan, Tac (60), I.K.S. vagh SuD bas, B'rel Retrofit Bird-of-Prey (T5U), Ho'ragh
[WIP] No-Fleet, T5U B'rel Retrofit Build



Last edited by virusdancer; 10-06-2013 at 08:58 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 267
# 20
10-06-2013, 09:13 AM
A truly great guide to one of my favorite subjects, I've been waiting for this for some time. I do however have some tips that you left out. For instance, using rapid reload transphasics with 3 torp doffs is useless, seeing as the fleet or other XII ones will out damage them by a fare margin, especially of you have lots of critH/critD mods. Also, I have found that using three cluster torps (2 up front, 1 in back) is actually quite effective for the more spike oriented builds. They might not have full uptime, but the spike compensates for the loss of another normal torp with its insane damage. The damage dealt is very hard to recover from (if it doesn't one shot you) and the next one should be ready to fire before the opponent can do much.
Also, unlike your favorite ships to kill, sci ships are my personal favorite, especially vestas. So many people just want to do damage that they just use repulsers and feedback pulse, and drop other exotic damage abilities that would decloak you. Their flimsy hull is easily taken out with one cluster torp hit combined with some warp plasma and tractor beam.
These are just no my personal opinions (with minor testing) and by no means the standard.
Also, I can link my current build, which is a great PvP build that also does well in STFs.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?...pplasmattorp_0
Edit: well thanks auto correct for the wrap plasma instead of warp plasma and my own stupidity for accidentally making the eject warp plasma into an engineering team three.

Last edited by cepholapoid; 10-06-2013 at 09:22 AM.
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