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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,674
Hello, since we seemingly will soon get another Federation ship that CBS has granted permission to use cloak I was wondering if maybe Cryptic could poke them to allow the same for the temporal ships? When they were released both versions got identical stats, which had the benefit that no side could complain about getting the short end of the stick, even though a Klingon ship should have a cloak. But now we also have Romulan cloakless ships. Two thirds of the temporal ships should be able to cloak (or rather 5 out of 6 since Cryptic established that the Terran Empire uses cloaks too). It would really be nice if we could buy a cloaking device console from the Dilithium Store (like Jem'hadar fighters or Spiral Wave Disruptors for other lockbox ships).
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,162
# 2
10-06-2013, 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by assimilatedktar View Post
Hello, since we seemingly will soon get another Federation ship that CBS has granted permission to use cloak I was wondering if maybe Cryptic could poke them to allow the same for the temporal ships? When they were released both versions got identical stats, which had the benefit that no side could complain about getting the short end of the stick, even though a Klingon ship should have a cloak. But now we also have Romulan cloakless ships. Two thirds of the temporal ships should be able to cloak (or rather 5 out of 6 since Cryptic established that the Terran Empire uses cloaks too). It would really be nice if we could buy a cloaking device console from the Dilithium Store (like Jem'hadar fighters or Spiral Wave Disruptors for other lockbox ships).
At this point the argument is getting so old and the game so unbalanced they might as well add an innate battle cloak to EVERY ship in the game and just be done with the issue
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,598
# 3
10-06-2013, 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newromulan1 View Post
At this point the argument is getting so old and the game so unbalanced they might as well add an innate battle cloak to EVERY ship in the game and just be done with the issue
To the vast majority of STO players, who don't PvP, a Cloak is just a toy: something to gain a few extra DPS while doing STFs for the 50th time.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,815
# 4
10-06-2013, 12:07 PM
Personally, I can see the Temporal Ships originally having cloaks, but those being removed before letting us get them. A cloak from the 29th Century would make the Scimitar look like a person hiding behind a curtain with their feet sticking out. Everyone knows they are there, but feel pity for them so they try to ignore them. So a 29th Century cloak would be fully shielded, can use all weapons, no cooldown, can cloak for years, and can cloak an entire fleet while they are cloaked. Then there is the problem that since the Temporal Ship is so advanced that 25th Century cloak just won't do. Either the Temporal Ship just releases too much energy to be cloaked or 25th Century cloaking technology is just not compatible with 29th Century technology. After all, try to play a CD on an 8 track player with no knowledge about how a CD works.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,674
# 5
10-06-2013, 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starkaos View Post
Personally, I can see the Temporal Ships originally having cloaks, but those being removed before letting us get them. A cloak from the 29th Century would make the Scimitar look like a person hiding behind a curtain with their feet sticking out. Everyone knows they are there, but feel pity for them so they try to ignore them. So a 29th Century cloak would be fully shielded, can use all weapons, no cooldown, can cloak for years, and can cloak an entire fleet while they are cloaked. Then there is the problem that since the Temporal Ship is so advanced that 25th Century cloak just won't do. Either the Temporal Ship just releases too much energy to be cloaked or 25th Century cloaking technology is just not compatible with 29th Century technology. After all, try to play a CD on an 8 track player with no knowledge about how a CD works.
I don't want a cloak from the 29th century or even a Romulan battle cloak, just a normal cloaking device console like the the one the Defiant, Galaxy-X and Avenger get. Compatibility or energy output can't be issues since we can equip standard warp cores, impulse engines and everything else on the ships. And cloaking devices are extremely easy to install. The original Enterprise got a stolen Romulan one, the Enterprise-D got the interphasic one from the Pegasus, Quark once upgraded a Cardassian shuttle with one etc.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 544
# 6
10-06-2013, 12:37 PM
What I found amusing with the Romulan version of the Temporal Science/Destroyer vessels is that they stopped using the Singularity Core for the older and less efficient Warp Core. Couple that with both the KDF and Rom lacking a cloaking device and it's just Derp Derp ship design on Cryptic's end.


Honestly, they should go back and make all the temporal ships Singularity Core and Cloak. It's the distant future, all three factions would have these things by then.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,815
# 7
10-06-2013, 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by assimilatedktar View Post
I don't want a cloak from the 29th century or even a Romulan battle cloak, just a normal cloaking device console like the the one the Defiant, Galaxy-X and Avenger get. Compatibility or energy output can't be issues since we can equip standard warp cores, impulse engines and everything else on the ships. And cloaking devices are extremely easy to install. The original Enterprise got a stolen Romulan one, the Enterprise-D got the interphasic one from the Pegasus, Quark once upgraded a Cardassian shuttle with one etc.
And yet we can't equip a Matter/Antimatter Warp Core to a Warbird. So compatibility is a major issue. I seriously doubt that a Temporal Ship has anything in common with any ship from the 25th Century. Temporal Ships use Temporal Cores and other highly advanced technology that people in the 25th Century can't comprehend that well and we can't comprehend it at all. There was more done to the Temporal Ships than just remove advanced technology. Some of the systems were modified so it could use primitive technology and a Cloaking Device just seems too tricky to get it to work properly. Therefore a Cloaking Device on a Temporal Ship has to be designed to work on a Temporal Ship. We could probably attach a 29th Century Cloaking Device to a 25th Century ship and it would work well enough, but attaching a 25th Century Cloaking Device to a 29th Century ship just doesn't seem it would work.

The Phase Cloak from the Pegasus was decided around a 24th Century Federation ship so it would make sense for the designers of this cloak to make it compatible with other 24th Century Federation ships. The Stolen Romulan cloak and the cloak Quark upgraded a Cardassian shuttle are at similar levels of technological development so there is no need to worry about power levels. 29th Century ships have additional power requirements to worry about so how does a regular 25th Century cloak deal with the massive amounts of chronitons and whatever unique radiation is released by these ships? Having a ship that releases a ton of chroniton particles due to the Tipler Cylinder or Manheim Device being cloaked is very visible to 25th Century ships. Sure the ship can't be seen, but the chroniton signature is just a huge target. A cloak has to remove all traces of a ship and if it can't even deal with one type of radiation, then there is no point to using a cloak.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,674
# 8
10-06-2013, 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gstamo01 View Post
What I found amusing with the Romulan version of the Temporal Science/Destroyer vessels is that they stopped using the Singularity Core for the older and less efficient Warp Core. Couple that with both the KDF and Rom lacking a cloaking device and it's just Derp Derp ship design on Cryptic's end.


Honestly, they should go back and make all the temporal ships Singularity Core and Cloak. It's the distant future, all three factions would have these things by then.
Singularity cores are at best equal to M/AM warp cores, in fact where science vessels are concerned I prefer warp cores because they allow me to have decent power levels in weapons, shields and auxiliary and I'm pretty sure the boards would be destroyed in a firestorm if Cryptic changes the ships to have 40 less power.

Please stay on topic. This thread isn't about complete redesigns, 29th century overpowered cloaks or Cryptics design choice to release alle temporal ships with identical stats for the different factions. It's about adding an optional basic cloaking device as a console since most organizations the ships belong to do use cloaks.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,815
# 9
10-06-2013, 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gstamo01 View Post
What I found amusing with the Romulan version of the Temporal Science/Destroyer vessels is that they stopped using the Singularity Core for the older and less efficient Warp Core. Couple that with both the KDF and Rom lacking a cloaking device and it's just Derp Derp ship design on Cryptic's end.


Honestly, they should go back and make all the temporal ships Singularity Core and Cloak. It's the distant future, all three factions would have these things by then.
These ships had Temporal Cores and Cloaks, they were just removed for whatever reason. The Temporal Ships we get are heavily gimped Temporal Ships. Otherwise, Temporal Ships would be able to one-shot a Tactical Borg Cube or be able to fly into a Black Hole and come out without being destroyed. The Temporal Ambassador cutscene pretty much shows how a Temporal Ship should act when it easily destroyed the Tholian Tarantula.

As far as Romulan Temporal Ships having Matter/Antimatter Warp Cores go, it was probably just easier to modify it with a Matter/Antimatter Warp Core rather than a Singularity Warp Core. Or the Tholians didn't have and Singularity Cores lying around.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,674
# 10
10-06-2013, 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starkaos View Post
And yet we can't equip a Matter/Antimatter Warp Core to a Warbird.
Apples and oranges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by starkaos View Post
I seriously doubt that a Temporal Ship has anything in common with any ship from the 25th Century. Temporal Ships use Temporal Cores and other highly advanced technology that people in the 25th Century can't comprehend that well and we can't comprehend it at all.
My temporal ship uses a warp core and plasma cannons and turrets I got from the exchange, Efficient Impulse Engines from Past Imperfect, Reman experimental shields from Obisek, what was your point again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by starkaos View Post
There was more done to the Temporal Ships than just remove advanced technology. Some of the systems were modified so it could use primitive technology and a Cloaking Device just seems too tricky to get it to work properly. Therefore a Cloaking Device on a Temporal Ship has to be designed to work on a Temporal Ship. We could probably attach a 29th Century Cloaking Device to a 25th Century ship and it would work well enough, but attaching a 25th Century Cloaking Device to a 29th Century ship just doesn't seem it would work.
The 29th century ship is just a hull around a Tipler Cylinder or Manheim Device. Nothing special about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by starkaos View Post
The Phase Cloak from the Pegasus was decided around a 24th Century Federation ship so it would make sense for the designers of this cloak to make it compatible with other 24th Century Federation ships.
You are conveniently ignoring the installation of a Romulan cloak on a Federation ship during a time when the Federation had never seen cloaks before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by starkaos View Post
The Stolen Romulan cloak and the cloak Quark upgraded a Cardassian shuttle are at similar levels of technological development so there is no need to worry about power levels. 29th Century ships have additional power requirements to worry about so how does a regular 25th Century cloak deal with the massive amounts of chronitons and whatever unique radiation is released by these ships? Having a ship that releases a ton of chroniton particles due to the Tipler Cylinder or Manheim Device being cloaked is very visible to 25th Century ships. Sure the ship can't be seen, but the chroniton signature is just a huge target. A cloak has to remove all traces of a ship and if it can't even deal with one type of radiation, then there is no point to using a cloak.
Sorry, but if you are trying to justify an inability to cloak please do your homework. First of all, the power plants our ships use (warp core and impulse engines) are all 25th century. The temporal ships do not produce any additional energy. Also my science officer has "Mask Energy Signature I". Now how can such a monkey who has absolutely no idea how this marvel of 29th century works hide this gigantic chroniton signature from enemy scanners? Right, because it doesn't exist.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
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