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Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 332
I brought this up in the "romulan science love" thread, but it didnt seem to get much attention, so I figured I'd flesh it out and put it into its own suggestion thread.

A lot of romulan players are upset that the only real science ships we get are the ha'nom, which is a giant pigeon, or the temporal science ship (which is not reliably obtainable).

It makes the most sense to me that any additional ships being added to the romulan faction should be ships that are designed and built by the romulan republic. We've already got all of the star empire's stolen ships in the game, and the republic is trying to replace those with it's own designs to seperate itself from the empire.

That said, it also seems to me that the most resource intensive part of building your own ships is coming up with the actual floor plan and design in the first place. Research and development is where the cost lies. That in mind, it makes sense that the republic - being extremely limited on manpower, resources, and facilities - would want to create a modular ship platform that can fulfill a great many functions with minimal change in the basic design and layout. The result is that you have a ship frame that can be used for varying purposes, with only superficial changes or system alterations to set varying ships apart.

A lot of players, myself included, love the ar'kif/ar'kala designs. They're beautifully made, and feel like they're perfect for the republic - they're just the right size, still larger than the average counterpart but still not massive hulking beasts like the double d or ha'apax/nom/feh shipline. They're the perfect platform to build an entire multi-purpose shipline from.

So, listed below are my suggestions for two additional cstore ships to be added to the game, which represent the science and engineering focused variants of the Ar'kif, both being t5. First, the current ar'kif and it's layout:

Ar'kif Tactical Carrier Warbird Retrofit
Bridge Officers:
Commander Tactical
Lieutenant Tactical

Lieutenant Science
Ensign Engineer
Lieutenant Commander Universal
Consoles:
4 Tactical
3 Science
2 Engineer
Hull: 31,500
Turn Rate: 16
Shield Modifier: 0.9
Crew: 300
Fore Weapons: 4
Aft Weapons: 3
+15 Weapon Power
1 Hangar Bay (Scorpion Fighters)
Console: Focused Singularity Beam



Ar'tan Scout Carrier Warbird Retrofit
Bridge Officers:
Ensign Tactical
Commander Science
Lieutenant Science

Lieutenant Engineer
Lieutenant Commander Universal
Consoles:
2 Tactical
4 Science
3 Engineer
Hull: 29,000
Turn Rate: 13
Shield Modifier: 1.3
Crew: 300
Fore Weapons: 3
Aft Weapons: 3
+15 Auxilliary Power
1 Hangar Bay (Tiercel Shuttlecraft)
(+Sensor Analysis)
(+Subsytem Targetting)
Console: focused singularity beam

This is the science version of the platform, with stats equivalent to the average science vessel. Based mostly on the d'kyr's stats, the ar'tan has slightly less hull but higher turn rate, emphasizing romulan design philosophy.

Rather than scorpion fighters, this ship's single hangar would come equipped with tiercel shuttles designed to support science-based operations. Tiercel shuttles launch in wings of 2, with a max of two wings deployed at a time, and are only equipped with a basic plasma beam array, but each tiercel shuttle active increases the ar'tan's auxilliary power level by 2 in order to facilitate science abilities. Tiercel shuttles can only be equipped on the ar'kif, ar'kala, ar'tan, and ar'vor ship types.

Appearance-wise, I imagine the Ar'tan to have a design very similar to the ar'kala, but with a visible secondary deflector array, slightly lighter/less armored appearance, and more elegant and swooping wings and other features. All parts would be interchangeable with the ar'kif, ar'kala, and ar'vor ship components.



Ar'vor Support Carrier Warbird Retrofit
Bridge Officers:
Lieutenant Tactical
Ensign Science
Commander Engineer
Lieutenant Engineer

Lieutenant Commander Universal
Consoles:
3 Tactical
2 Science
4 Engineer
Hull: 36,000
Turn Rate: 10
Shield Modifier: 1
Crew: 300
Fore Weapons: 3
Aft Weapons: 3
+5 All Power Levels
1 Hangar Bay (Kestrel Runabouts)
Console: focused singularity beam

And the engineer version of the platform. I based the stats here roughly off of the excelsior/heavy cruiser - it's got noticably less hull than comparable cruisers, but benefits from higher turn rate.

Rather than scorpion fighters, the Ar'vor comes equipped with kestrel runabouts, which deploy only one at a time, with a max of two active per hangar bay. Kestrel runabouts are more resilient than other shuttle/fighter/runabout types, bordering on frigate-like resilience, but are still only equipped with plasma torpedoes and a plasma beam array. Kestrel runabouts are able to use the quantum absorbtion singularity ability, healing themselves if they get too heavily damaged.
Additionally, kestrel runabouts support the Ar'vor and other allied ships with shield recharge and hull repair beams. Kestrel runabouts may only be equipped on the ar'kif, ar'kala, ar'tan, and ar'vor ship types.

Appearance-wise, the Ar'vor would, while being the same physical size as the other carrier warbirds, appear to be much bulkier and more heavily armored. It's construction and design theme would be a little more rigid and square, but not to the same extent as klingon ships - it would still retain the curvature common to romulan vessels. Instead of single nacelles held at each wingtip, the ar'vor would have dual nacelles, stacked one on top of the other, facilitating a more powerful warp field. Due to the runabouts, the ar'vor might have a more pronounced shuttlebay/hangar bay as well. As with the ar'tan, all ship parts would be interchangeable with all other carrier warbird retrofit parts to create customized appearances.




All of the ships - the ar'kif, ar'kala, ar'tan, and ar'vor would benefit from the same set bonus (quad plasma cannons + focused singularity beam console, granting +10% plasma damage and +30 weapons training), to keep things simple. The unique benefit of each ship comes with the hangar craft - scorpions, tiercels, or kestrels (damage, buffing, and healing respectively).
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,532
# 2
10-06-2013, 08:56 PM
I'm not trying to say it's a bad idea or anything but maybe better off looking for a new ship instead of building another 3 pack...besides there isn't any ship in the game with variants so different as your own.

Just like everything else even if you add a true science variant most people are just going to fly the tac one anyways since it is the best. Once again just better off working on a new ship all together.

Nice ideas and all but we're probably better off hoping for a stand alone sci ship...maybe something like the Vesta.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,324
# 3
10-07-2013, 12:02 AM
I'd prefer a purpose built sci ship rather than an escort shoe horned into a 3 pack.

Romulans will probably get a Cruiser or a Carrier next but. Sci ships aren't Popular.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001.
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Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 332
# 4
10-07-2013, 07:01 AM
Why do you think it's an "escort shoehorned into a science ship"? It has all the stats of a science ship, even a unique appearance - the only difference is an ability to equip dual cannons, a hangar bay (which a lot of science ships have already), and the singularity beam.
the arkif model, despite being an escort, is nearly the size of many cruisers and larger than most science ships. I dont see why basing new designs off of it is necessarily a bad thing.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 5
10-07-2013, 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by telbasta7386 View Post
Why do you think it's an "escort shoehorned into a science ship"? It has all the stats of a science ship, even a unique appearance - the only difference is an ability to equip dual cannons, a hangar bay (which a lot of science ships have already), and the singularity beam.
the arkif model, despite being an escort, is nearly the size of many cruisers and larger than most science ships. I dont see why basing new designs off of it is necessarily a bad thing.
A couple of things here.

Firstly, calling it a shoe-horned escort is entirely accurate. Your proposal is to take a tac-heavy ship, and paste on a science ships stats. If that''s not stuffing one thing into the role of another, I honestly don't know what is.

Secondly, only one "pure" science ship has a hangar: The Vesta. Quotation marks are necessary because it's effectively a science-ized escort too.

Thirdly, only one of STO's Escort type vessels is in fact an Escort (Defiant). The rest are either Frigates (Steamrunner) or Cruisers (Akira, Saber, Prometheus, Maelstrom, Kumari). Using a false dichotomy to try and make a size argument that isn't there doesn't actually get you anywhere.
Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 332
# 6
10-07-2013, 11:44 AM
The arkif is only an escort in stats. As far as model size, it is easily a cruiser.

Also, I would argue that both the atrox and voquv count as science ships, and both have two hangars. All of the flight deck cruisers, similarly, have hangars along with cruiser stats and seating.

All im suggesting is adding two ships to the faction - one engineering based with cruiser stats and one science based with science ship stats, that are based on the same frame as the arkif - meaning they are if similar size and that ship parts are interchangeable between them when using the ship tailor.

Honestly I hate spending money on cstore ships to find that they have few, if any, customization options at the ship tailor - which is why im suggesting linking science and engineer ships to the arkif/arkala in that way. Perhaps I simply did not convey the concept clearly enough.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 7
10-07-2013, 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by telbasta7386 View Post
The arkif is only an escort in stats. As far as model size, it is easily a cruiser.
You've completely missed the point. Size has absolutely nothing to do with whether something in STO is considered an Escort. Boff seating, turn rate, hull and shield modifiers, console selection and weapon loadouts make that distinction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by telbasta7386 View Post
Also, I would argue that both the atrox and voquv count as science ships, and both have two hangars. All of the flight deck cruisers, similarly, have hangars along with cruiser stats and seating.
The Atrox and Vo'Quv are carriers. Are carriers potentially arguable as a sub-branch of science ship? Depending on one's point of view, possibly. In reality however, the two groups have fundamental distinctions because of turn rate and boff seating differences.

I fail to see how flight deck cruisers have any relevance here, since the only current flight deck cruisers function identically to their non flight-deck counterparts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by telbasta7386 View Post
All im suggesting is adding two ships to the faction - one engineering based with cruiser stats and one science based with science ship stats, that are based on the same frame as the arkif - meaning they are if similar size and that ship parts are interchangeable between them when using the ship tailor.
Simply put, not going to happen. You might as well request a full-Tac version of the Olympic (fish bowl ship).

Quote:
Originally Posted by telbasta7386 View Post
Honestly I hate spending money on cstore ships to find that they have few, if any, customization options at the ship tailor - which is why im suggesting linking science and engineer ships to the arkif/arkala in that way. Perhaps I simply did not convey the concept clearly enough.

Then ask for more ship costume parts. Realistically that's a much more viable option than crusading for something that breaks the few remaining rules governing ship stats.
Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 332
# 8
10-07-2013, 12:58 PM
Let me put it this way for you, since you're still having trouble understanding what it is im asking for:

I want a science ship and cruiser added for the romulan faction, which in all ways are those types of ships with the proper stats, console layouts, and boff seating befitting a science ship and cruiser.

Then I want these two ships to use unique models with parts that are interchangeable with each other and with the arkif/arkala models.

The point being to add two ships that have a great deal of visual/aesthetic customization, rather than none at all; as well as to open up additional customization for anyone flying the arkif or arkala who purchases these ships.

at the same time, I also want to see additional romulan hangar pets added to the game, namely the tiercel and kestrel, so im not forced into using scorpions or fed fighters.

Lastly, I think it would be nice if this new engineering ship functioned as a flight deck cruiser, and if the new science vessel had a single hangar as well.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 9
10-07-2013, 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by telbasta7386 View Post
Let me put it this way for you, since you're still having trouble understanding what it is im asking for:
I know exactly what you're asking for, and it's not going to happen. Wanting new ships is one thing. Wanting new costume pieces is another thing. Wanting new ships with new costume pieces that are all hot-swappable for each other *and* existing ships is something entirely different.

By themselves each request is somewhat reasonable, albeit extremely unlikely. Mashed together in some frankenstein's monster demand it's a flat out pipe dream.
Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 332
# 10
10-07-2013, 01:44 PM
It isn't without precedent. Look at the heavy escort line - 5 ship costumes spread out over 4 different ships (3 if you dont count the fleet version), all interchangeable.

it is no more difficult to do this than to add completely separate ships. I would argue its even easier from a development standpoint, since you can start with an existing model and alter it for a new look instead of starting from scratch, and at the same time you're not only adding new ships to the game but also new costumes, which could justify a higher store price (or at least might boost sales if people want the costume for an existing ship).
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