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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,840
# 21
10-09-2013, 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3ndor99 View Post
I say let them nerf it! It shouldn't be better than ships 70+ years old, heck no one buy until they make it like the galaxy class, who wants a fast capable fed cruiser anyway, yup nerf it so escorts still rule the heap... this is what everyone wants don't they?
quite the contrary, the problem is that the Avenger makes all other Starfleet Cruisers obsolete. Instead Cryptics should have introduced a mechanic that buffs Starfleet Cruisers in general COMPARED to other factions cruisers.

Another thing is that ppl are waiting for a reworked Galaxy -R and -X, but with the introduction of this new ship Cryptic did the exact opposite, they made those ships even more obsolete!

EDIT:
Regarding the excelsior, in my opinion it never should have been that strong in STO in the first place outgunning the Sovereign (assault cruiser) and the Galaxy Class, just because one dev was a fan of the Excel...
(very professional approach, cryptic really )

Cryptic should have reworked the other two main Starfleet Cruisers (star Cruiser and GCS) in a similar manner as the Assault Crusier. (Star Crusier science focussed, GCS similar to the Nebula or antagonistic to the Romulan D'Deridex.)


But no one wanted a ship that is,
one, making all others obsolete and
two, being the most hideous thing Cryptic has ever produced
at the same time.

They shoud have at least unlocked Sovereign, Star Crusier and GCS ship parts to be used with that ship. (each ship set seperately, of course)


-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-

Last edited by yreodred; 10-09-2013 at 05:50 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,331
# 22
10-09-2013, 06:14 AM
Like i have posted in another thread, i understand everyones point of view but, if this was about the galaxy dread getting upgraded to these new battle cruiser stats, would there be as much anger? Is it that people just don't like the look, is that people like to be the eternal underdog in their cruisers? Why shouldn't a fed cruiser be this good? If this ship is a big no, then why should any other older ship be better? Help me understand! ( oh and i hate the galaxy class design, have done since the late 80's )
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,141
# 23
10-09-2013, 06:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3ndor99 View Post
Like i have posted in another thread, i understand everyones point of view but, if this was about the galaxy dread getting upgraded to these new battle cruiser stats, would there be as much anger? Is it that people just don't like the look, is that people like to be the eternal underdog in their cruisers? Why shouldn't a fed cruiser be this good? If this ship is a big no, then why should any other older ship be better? Help me understand! ( oh and i hate the galaxy class design, have done since the late 80's )
It's not that anyone doesn't want a Fed. cruiser to be this good, at least in my opinion.

The thing is, let's say as an example we have 10 Federation cruisers at Tier 5. Each of the 10 cruisers should be equally usefull to each other in end-game content with only minor variances. That's the point of being on a same tier after all.
So now, the way the end-game is currently set up, some of these 10 Tier 5 cruisers are lackluster, some of them are completely useless and some of them can ace it. People tend to have issues with that. It basically boils down to - why is my T5 cruiser so useless compared to your T5 cruiser when they're both the same tier? People tend to have issues with that and rightfully so.

And then you introduce a 11-th cruiser at T5 that is suposed to fill the same role as 2 or 3 of the existing 10 cruiser, but do it better thus rendering them obsolete. And that techincally isn't T5 anymore. Well it is in a certain way, but it's a "better T5". And at the same tier, roles should vary but not in game efficiency and preformace, IMHO.

Like I said in another thread, if they're really going to take this direction with ships they need to implement a way for players to pay to upgrade their current ship really soon. Because the gap between old T5 and new T5 will get wider and wider when at a point you could bring T6 ships anyway. Either that or adjust the end-game content so something else than pure damage is relevant, so ships like the Fleet Star Cruiser, the Fleet Galaxy-R and such could really have a place in end-game as T5 ships.

Last edited by shpoks; 10-09-2013 at 06:40 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,365
# 24
10-09-2013, 06:47 AM
Let us look at Cryptic's history with a few cruiser releases.

1st: Oddy - Simply put it could fill any build/role/etc better than every other cruiser previously released. Even the fleet versions were obsolete upon release.

2nd/3rd: Regant/Excel(Fleet) - Pushed the oddy back into only being the top eng/sci cruiser. Honestly these two compete very well with one another for top offensive ship as each has an edge on the other, regant has better boff layout with the excel having a better mobility.

Current Avenger Stats will make every other tactical styled cruiser obsolete. It will be superior in every way and any build on a regant/excel would work better on the Avenger.

Compared to escorts where I have a defiant/steamrunner/kumari/armatige all on different characters with vastly different builds that the other ships simply would not be capable of using in the same way and you can see why people tend to avoid buying cruisers. Why bother when all they do is the same as the previous version except 5% better? Then in five months one will have to shell out another $25 to keep up again, screw that!

As for the engineer heavy cruiser, aka tank, their is nothing in this game worth specializing into a tank role for. All that extra survivability you could theoretically shove into a cruiser is a waste when any ship in the game can tank any of the content already without much sacrifice or opportunity cost.
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Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,158
# 25
10-09-2013, 07:13 AM
They won't. The Avenger outclasses the Excelsior and Regent, especially the Regent, in every relevant way. It turns better, it has better shields, 5/3 is simply better than 4/4, even as a beamboat (5 fore allows you to fire 5 guns while closing to attack instead of 4). While the Excelsior can at least claim to have a different boff layout(albeit most likely a worse one), the Regent just can't: The Avenger has exactly the same layout, with a Universal slot that isn't a fake choice instead, and, of course, better stats all around.

While in the beamboat role, it's not enough of an upgrade to warrant paying a full replacement cost to get a Fleet Avenger instead of your existing Fleet Whatever, it basically removes any point to purchasing the others in the future.

On top of that, it requires merely T4 Yard instead of the T5 required for the ship that this one outclasses.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 135
# 26
10-09-2013, 07:26 AM
The Avenger will be limited by its own potential.Meaning missusage.

How many competent players you see flying around in fleet vorchas or scimitars?
Sure ships like that can do focused fire very well but it limits their time on target drasticly , decreasing their damage, or they sit and burn.
Best example is the scimitar. People try to fly it like an escort and it just doesnt work.
Fitted out with cannons and battlecloack and sec shields and adv drones it is so seriously OP. But only if used corectly. Hit and run with slightly longer hitting time than escorts, than move away and recover, heal and crossheal.
However most people overdue the tac facto to squeeze even more dps out of it. But without aoe they get surprised by heavy plasma torps. And then they sit and have low defence and to much inertia to get moving to get out of trouble.
Played right a scimi only needs time to brutaly slaughter whatever comes across. But what is the reality, big green clouds of exploded scimitars whenever i see them in stfs or even sb24.

The Avengers and Thorkats and scimitars in this game suffer the same dilema as all cannon focused cruisers: built for stabbing and used for slashing.
Cruisers ftw!
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 607
# 27
10-09-2013, 07:26 AM
In terms of firepower, The Avenger is going to be almost identical to my Fleet Assault cruiser, because i'll use it as a beamboat. As i broadside almost constantly, Having a slot taken of the back and popped on the front is pointless...



I'm only really getting the ship because (I think) it looks badass!
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"We won't go back, you don't know what its like in our Universe, the original timeline had gone, JJ Abrahms is everywhere"
Quote:
Originally Posted by rylanadionysis View Post
just shut up
Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,201
# 28
10-09-2013, 07:30 AM
A lot of this stuff makes me laugh so hard - try going to one of the major car companies or your local dealer to complain that the new model makes your model of car or truck not as good anymore!!

The response should be:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,068
# 29
10-09-2013, 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newromulan1 View Post
A lot of this stuff makes me laugh so hard - try going to one of the major car companies or your local dealer to complain that the new model makes your model of car or truck not as good anymore!!

The response should be:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4
That's why we repeatedly see aderts for some new tier 3 Fiat...no wait we don't...you just missed the point.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,365
# 30
10-09-2013, 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newromulan1 View Post
A lot of this stuff makes me laugh so hard - try going to one of the major car companies or your local dealer to complain that the new model makes your model of car or truck not as good anymore!!

The response should be:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4
Escorts are the top selling Cstore ships.

Escort releases do not constantly '1-UP' the previous ones released most have a neat 'nitch' the others lack.

That is a reason I own every escort released but only half of the cruisers.
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