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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 207
# 31
10-20-2013, 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
Any Ground player worth their salt is going to have enough points in combat armor to boost the stat up to 14%. There is no "coming clean" about that statement.
Ah yes ... the good old "I'm pulling rank on you, AGAIN!" card. You've already played it once, and doing so didn't help you any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
I've been attempting to have a civil conversation with you in this thread, yet you have demonstrated that you have no desire to even attempt to do so. I've taken time to sit down and present a sound argument as to why the set would be imbalanced. You've merely responded to my arguments with a condescending and heavily sarcastic tone. I didn't just start writing what I wrote without thinking. I took the time to analyze everything that you presented as a core set and I noticed an imbalance.
Yes, yes ... you've been terribly victimized. When asked to Show Your Work you turn in an Incomplete and resort to comparing apples to oranges in order to say you were right all along. When you IMAGINE things that clearly haven't been said, it hurts your feelings to get called on it and have it pointed out for all to see (using direct quotes no less!) that you're just making stuff up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
Yeah...you may not take me seriously
Well, you have CONSISTENTLY made it excessively difficult for me to do so. Not just once or twice, but multiple times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
but with your actions in this thread and with the arguments I present, no dev wandering by the thread will take you seriously either.
(*polite cough*)

I see what you did there. You're not fooling anyone, you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
I highly doubt <snippity>
I'm sorry, but at this point, I really can't take your doubts seriously anymore. Good day, sir.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 207
# 32
10-20-2013, 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulyman View Post
love love love all of this.. my only wish is to incorporate a split beam as the weapon. personaly I think two of the best ground weapons are pulsewaves and split beams.
I think it goes without saying that I'm glad you approve of the effort made at [Wishful Thinking], even if it isn't exactly what you (personally) might have wanted. As for using a Split Beam Rifle for the weapon instead ... the simple fact of the matter is that you're never going to be able to please EVERYONE, if only because one size does NOT fit all. Different people have different preferences, of course, and different weapons suit different playstyles better (go figure... ).

That said, as has already been mentioned previously by other posters ... aside from the demands on Dev resources to produce (ie. Time, Tools and Tech Manuals ), if there is sufficient "demand" for it, a case could be made for building a counterpart Reman Anti-Borg Ground Set, which would "share" certain features with any potential Romulan Anti-Borg Ground Set (since that seems to be a "theme" for the two races in that their tech is "close, but not exactly the same"). That means you could potentially have TWO Anti-Borg Ground Sets made for the Romulan Reputation reward system ... a Romulan and a Reman set ... and that the Romulan set could have a different weapon (Piercing Beam Rifle) than the Reman set does (Split Beam Rifle).

Downside to that, of course, is that you then have to have Art Designs that aren't carbon copies of each other, so there's a bit more work involved there, not to mention QA and playtesting of double the material, not to mention balance tweaking and so on. Not saying it can't be done ... just that if you're going for a TWOFER instead of just a single, you aren't going to be getting the "second one for free" as far as the SCHEDULE is concerned. At best, you'd probably be looking at something like 1.7-1.8x the amount of time and effort involved, because you'd be doing both "together" (effectively) so there's a little bit of a discount, but that then starts getting towards being a "non-trivial investment" so ... yeah.

Not trying to throw cold water on the idea, but rather instead give a "peek behind the curtain" as to a likely presumption of how things would work on Cryptic's end should something like this come up in a meeting. In all of my conversations with Devs at Destination Games (Tabula Rasa) and at Paragon Studios (City of Heroes) the lament was always the same when it came to "doing stuff" ... it's all about THE SCHEDULE when it comes to "what gets in" the game.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kapla1755 View Post
I was generally curious about the claim that combat armor skill boosted crit chance and crit severity since if is not mentioned in the skill tool tip or on wiki just that it provided increased damage resistance. So after some digging I found:

http://starfleetprotectors.guildlaun....php?t=9300290


Wow, sometimes the dedication of STO fans to test things impresses me.
Agreed. The charts provided conclusively demonstrate/prove that having Combat Armor 9 skill level would add a grand total of ... +1.2% crit chance per 5% crit chance (base). That means that the +10% Critical Chance on an Advanced Targeting Armor becomes ... +12.4% Critical Chance at maximum skill (not ~14% as previously claimed).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapla1755 View Post
Maybe it would be simpler since this is only a theoretical discussion anyway to use the base stats of the Fleet advanced targeted armor if you really want the crit chance and think of another bonus like khg adrenal booster which is a heal + melee damage enhancement which would work well with both romulan/reman ground damage in the racial trait?
Using the Base Stats would have been a far "cleaner" and more of a "level playing field" comparison to be making since it allows direct comparison of stats "in a vacuum" without involving build strategies at the first stage of consideration.

To be honest, I *had* considered using a Physical Augmentation Armor as the Base Armor Type instead of Integrated Targeting Armor, precisely because of the Physical Strength Trait for Romulans and Remans. The reason why I rejected that choice is because that pushes the entire set more towards being a Melee Fighter type of set, which thematically works perfectly fine for Klingons and is entirely in keeping with their character and reputation ... but isn't the first thing you think of thematically with regards to Romulans (and by extension, Remans). Indeed, from a "racial themes" standpoint, Romulans are culturally more oriented towards being the "sneaky intelligence" types, rather than the "brawling fighter" types. Given the limited avenues of "expressing" that particular thematic using the established armor types already in game, I figured that Integrated Targeting Armor made the "best fit" for that reputational dynamic.

Furthermore, angling the Romulan Set armor towards Physical Augmentation would necessarily "skew" a portion of its usefulness towards (guess who...) Tactical, because they are the only Captains and Bridge Officers who can (most effectively) use Melee Attacks beyond the stock and standard Pistol Butt/Rifle Butt 3rd attack using a weapon. And although "everyone" can use a melee weapon (and indeed, melee weapons can be "quite effective" against the Borg because the Borg "can't adapt" to melee damage) ... by putting such a Melee "supporting" base into the armor, you'd be (at the Game Design level) be pushing players towards a particular playstyle when it comes to using the completed Set ... namely Romulan Set 3 plus Crystalline Sword ... so as to get your Range plus Melee combo (which, let's be honest, is a pretty darn good combo!). I just didn't want to be advocating any kind of "push" towards that at the Game Design level (ie. if you *don't* do THIS then you're just gimping yourself).

However ... if people would like me to make up an alternative "second draft" of this [Wishful Thinking] for a Romulan Anti-Borg Ground Set, then I don't see why not. Needless to say, it would change certain things, even if I did a pretty substantial "copy pasta" of the first draft seen at the beginning of this thread. Might take me a few days before posting anything though, if people want to see something ...

Quote:
After all we want a good looking armor and undoubtedly some players would get it just for the looks, so anyone looked in the foundry's art assets for potential ideas? maybe mix match some screen shots in a graphics program?
Hey, now there's a good idea! If there are Art Assets already in the game that can be used (and creatively "reorganized" to the purpose), that then cuts down on the amount of work the Art Department at Cryptic needs to do in order to get something like this into the game.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 898
# 33
10-20-2013, 10:07 PM
A thought since the possibility of a seperate Reman set could be done what if their set is more like the physical augmentation armor. Irrc they were described as being shock troops for ground assaults in ST: Nemesis, although we still need a uniquely Romulan ground melee weapon IMO,
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,890
# 34
10-20-2013, 10:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by autumnturning View Post
Ah yes ... the good old "I'm pulling rank on you, AGAIN!" card. You've already played it once, and doing so didn't help you any.

Yes, yes ... you've been terribly victimized. When asked to Show Your Work you turn in an Incomplete and resort to comparing apples to oranges in order to say you were right all along. When you IMAGINE things that clearly haven't been said, it hurts your feelings to get called on it and have it pointed out for all to see (using direct quotes no less!) that you're just making stuff up.

Well, you have CONSISTENTLY made it excessively difficult for me to do so. Not just once or twice, but multiple times.

(*polite cough*)

I see what you did there. You're not fooling anyone, you know.

I'm sorry, but at this point, I really can't take your doubts seriously anymore. Good day, sir.
You spend far too much time over analyzing the meaning behind my words. Try taking what I say at face value. At the moment if I didn't know better, I'd say you were a politician, but your attitude here contains too much sarcasm for such a position.

Will Cryptic make a Romulan STF set eventually? I'm almost certain such a thing will happen, but no amount of petitioning from your or anyone else here will convince Cryptic to throw balance out the window.

In a nutshell, your proposed set is too powerful and will never happen. The reason for this, as I have outlined in past comments, is because the +100% damage after once after every critical hit is too powerful. If you think about it, the proc is another way of saying +100% Critical Severity. The raw bonus to critical chance on the armor is also far too high , the critical severity bonus is just icing on the cake. For a set like this, the dodge makes things even worse. Do you know what the dodge stat does or did you just toss it on there because the Omega Force set has that stat? Giving all classes stealth module would make the set that much more powerful over than any other set ingame. All existing sets have a limited duration, with this set a player could cloak indefinitely, stack dodge, receive a large damage bonus often, and stack critical chance all with no downside. The title of this thread is fairly accurate, what you are asking for is wishful thinking indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by autumnturning View Post
Agreed. The charts provided conclusively demonstrate/prove that having Combat Armor 9 skill level would add a grand total of ... +1.2% crit chance per 5% crit chance (base). That means that the +10% Critical Chance on an Advanced Targeting Armor becomes ... +12.4% Critical Chance at maximum skill (not ~14% as previously claimed).
...


You are nitpicking a mathematical estimate that is clearly labeled as such with your own mathematical estimate that is not clearly listed as an estimate. Even if 12.4% is the exact value, ~14% is still a close estimate. Before you start trying to say that I didn't clearly label it as an estimate or that the tilde is not used for estimation, I will cover that now: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Tilde.html

Two things to note about that chart, it was published in July 2012, a lot has changed in Star Trek Online since then. Secondly, the Combat armor bonus percentages are off significantly. Bonuses don't vary from 18-41% as they do in the combat armor section of the chart. It's been a while since I've tested the combat armor bonuses, but they should be closer to 42% across the board with 6 points in combat armor. As it's stated on the top of that chart, combat armor is missing data. Could it be correct, perhaps, you could always test for yourself.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 207
# 35
10-21-2013, 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
You spend far too much time over analyzing the meaning behind my words.
No more food for you. Good day.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 543
# 36
10-21-2013, 10:58 AM
First: Lucky is + 3% CritH not + 5%.
Second: Romulans can't get Lucky (the ground trait).

"This bickering is pointless." ~ Grand Moff Tarkin

I like a lot of the ideas, but a damage proc off critical hits would not be my first choice. I do like the idea of giving an Ambush like ability to non Tacs. Tacs have long been getting all defensive bonuses and heals, about time it was reversed (although it should not stack with Tac Ambush). I am not a fan of the grenade on piercing rifle, but rather a blast assault-like secondary (see set below).

I would also like to see the Hirogen set from the KDF mission 'Alpha' moved up to Mk XII and made available to all.

Last edited by buccaneerdtb; 10-21-2013 at 11:04 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,037
# 37
10-21-2013, 10:59 AM
Slightly off the OP, but the discussions on style and effectiveness got me thinking.

Tal Shi'ar borg set. These are the guys playing around trying to use borg tech. They are also way flamboyant with the high end tunics and flared boots and gloves in bright(er) colours.

So Energy Dampening armour: BIG finned shoulders, Tubes running from the back to the side and from the arm to the side with no sense of balance to them.

Weapon Borg plasma arm cannon. Not the assault gun we carry, and actual arm gun.

Shields a low damage absorbing shield that 'adapts' to incoming fire So after a few shots it suddenly stops alot more.

Two piece bonus is a crit boost and shown by a laser pointer effect next to the eye on the helmet.

Three piece, You have been assimilated. Make them borg elite drones.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 207
# 38
10-21-2013, 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buccaneerdtb View Post
First: Lucky is + 3% CritH not + 5%.
<snerk>

More "creative imagineering" that doesn't withstand scrutiny when it comes time to Show Your Work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buccaneerdtb View Post
Second: Romulans can't get Lucky (the ground trait).
In this case, although that is True it is not Relevant since the Set would be offered through the Romulan Reputation System, which is available to ALL Captains in All Factions, regardless of Race. So, unfortunately, the Fact that Romulans ... (*cough*) ... "can't get Lucky" ... (*cough*) ... is "interesting" but ultimately unimportant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buccaneerdtb View Post
I like a lot of the ideas, but a damage proc off critical hits would not be my first choice.
Then what would be? One of my first thoughts was to make the Ambush Cloak on the Personal Shield proc when Critically Hit by incoming damage, rather than making it proc on Critical Hits on outgoing damage. Would that be any better though?

Quote:
Originally Posted by buccaneerdtb View Post
I do like the idea of giving an Ambush like ability to non Tacs.
The Ambush Cloak level of Stealth is really only "meaningful" when attacking from Range, and even then it's a brief and transitory thing. But when you've got an entire "almost a" Faction that is renowned for two things ... Cloaking technology and Plasma weaponry ... failing to include those things in a Set designed for that Faction would just be Game Design malpractice ... wouldn't you agree?

Quote:
Originally Posted by buccaneerdtb View Post
I am not a fan of the grenade on piercing rifle, but rather a blast assault-like secondary (see set below).
As mentioned earlier to someone else, I'd be honestly surprised if "everyone" liked the idea.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 207
# 39
10-21-2013, 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by feiqa View Post
Slightly off the OP, but the discussions on style and effectiveness got me thinking.

Tal Shi'ar borg set. These are the guys playing around trying to use borg tech.
The problem I (personally) have with this approach is that the Tal Shi'ar aren't really interested in "fighting" the Borg (per se) so much as they are interested in "harvesting" technology from the Borg ... which is a very different thing. The former is a straight up (Ground) combat style akin to the eSTFs we already have in the game, where it's all about the Pew Pew and not so much about sneaking in under the radar (so to speak). As the Romulan Episodes make clear, when the Tal Shi'ar actually DO have to "fight" the Borg (because the Borg wake up), the Tal Shi'ar operatives just get mowed down and Assimilated pretty quickly and easily (for reasons of PLOT rather than CAPABILITY, but still).

The key thing about the Tal Shi'ar is that they prefer to play the role of Puppetmasters rather than the role of Assault Squad, which means they're far more likely to try and take out the Borg by "network hacking" rather than through "smash mouth combat" to overpower them. That then puts them somewhat at odds with the Klingon Honor Guard, M.A.C.O. and Omega Force sorts of operational mission profiles, where the point is to go in and overwhelm the enemy in straight combat (albeit "sequentially" in small groups at a time ). That means that while everyone else fights the Borg with their "muscles" the Tal Shi'ar prefer to fight using their "brains" ... which is a very different style of fighting and leads to a completely different set of doctrine and engagement tactics/strategies.

So in that respect, I question the ... validity ... of a Tal Shi'ar "elite force" Ground Set for use against the Borg. It just doesn't seem to "fit" them quite as well as the other power centers.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 737
# 40
10-21-2013, 05:52 PM
Chiming in: ALL sets with helmets should have an EV upgrade available... GG would pay lobi for this!!!
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