Ensign
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5
# 21
10-16-2013, 11:52 PM
Here's what I've got from the last few day's PUGs:

Conduit: this one has changed a lot, since DPS became so high. Usually people go one side, pop cube, then generators, not always all the same time, not really caring about 10% anymore, but there's (almost) always someone with some slow effect for the probes (black hole thingy, eject warp plasma and whatnot), so by the time the probes would reach the generator, we can blow it out of the sky, then clean up the probes/spheres, and on to the other side. It actually works, unless a wild card appears, but been able to recover most of the time.

Khitomer: Have to agree, horrible 50% of the times. I was literally forced to probe duty many times, which i'm not really familiar with, since nobody else cared. Other guy was watching the other side, until something slipped. I check, and the guy went to kill the f-ing generator, leaving both sides to me, without warning me. And even with that, it took 4 of them 20 f-ing minutes just to blow one gate, while i'm with my dps running back and forth to all probes like some crazy chicken.

I don't even try hive or cure, and now even khitomer anymore, just stick to the conduit, and red alerts for extra marks.

Cheers,

Kei
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,158
# 22
10-17-2013, 12:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickeyredshirt View Post
Yes, it would appear as if older players who knew what they were doing aren't logging in as much anymore if at all. Wonder why?
Many reasons: Firstly, with rep grind extremely time-gated, there is no real incentive to do more than a few per day. So people are just doing one STF and being filled for a day or two. This, in turn, cuts down the amount of practice they get. So newbies don't get enough practice, and vets are often done forever. In the old days, you could just do them to outfit your boffs, which wasn't really USEFUL, but didn't cost you anything, so why not? But now, the motivation to do so is basically gone. Ground is thus mostly deserted, and space gear is too expensive to justify getting multiples just to avoid switching them around on your ships.

Plus, now you have other reps to grind as well. All these factors create content that you essentially "beat" and then move on from, reducing the number of experienced players in the pool.

On top of that, many players who might have otherwise performed adequately, if not spectacularly, are now very much undergeared. While previously, a new player to an STF would usually pick up a few [Borg] pieces within a few runs and be able to outfit his ship with some guns, maybe the Borg set, and even some XI STF pieces, all free just for playing, the current system gives you absolutely nothing until you reach the finish line, and attempting to acquire anything is early is shooting yourself in the foot: All of that stuff is expensive and ultimately junk at the end. Some of it doesn't even exist anymore: You're packing those XI white guns...FOREVER!

All these factors combine to make it a less pleasant experience for everyone involved, and contributes even more to an attitude of desiring to get it over with and never return.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 548
# 23
10-17-2013, 12:26 AM
I agree. Have been in some terribad ESTF lately.

I even carried a group for the first time. There was three guys that did not repair their ships, and one KDF guy that did, but seemed to have low DPS.

Had it not been for me flying my new shiny Avenger, with what little help the KDF guy did, the entire thing would have gone pear shaped.

In my opinion, if you have a damaged ship, you should not be able to enter ESTF, or if you do not have repair parts/regenerators, no ESTF entry...

But most runs seems to be ok, even if the optionals fail, but some are cringe worthy...
Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 443
# 24
10-17-2013, 01:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovinspace View Post
I've come back to the game and find in PUG games people wrecking the optionals in Elite STFs, it wasn't like this a year ago. Just did a conduit, everyone did one side and was taking care of the spheres, we get to the other side and some idiot has blown all the generators and wrecked the run. Vortex usually has someone on guard duty pick a single handed fight with a cube and lose and let a couple of probes through.

Are they doing this deliberately?
I've asked this very same question a few times myself. I've seen groups completely blow conduit while I achieve over 270%+ of the group's overall dps. I've seen groups blow this on NORMAL difficulty as well. Word of the wise: If you see just one player come into the STF shooting rainbows, take the leaver penalty -- it will spare you the drama.

Another problem is still afk/leeching characters even though PWE has claimed to fix this, I still see characters that move a few inches -- randomly -- and pick up their reward at the end while sitting in virtually the same spot or simply by moving across the map back and forth without firing a single shot.

And another problem is no one wants to voice chat in STF's even though the functionality is there and working, no one wants to talk in chat, even though the functionality is there, and everyone seems to just want to join the eSTF and just kill, kill, mindlessly. This behavior is counterproductive to a healthy pug.

I blame this behavior on PWE. There are several changes they have made which inhibit group cooperation and participation and changes that have not been made which could encourage group participation and cooperation. I believe that all content above level 35 should have a minimum difficulty in which nearly requires more group members to complete or die over and over again while receiving damage to the ship. That is another thing -- all deaths should have a high chance to cause damage to a ship, I believe this was the intended purpose behind multiple tiers of damage; tit-for-tat tiered to Easy, Medium, and Hard difficulty. They should use this system making deaths cost the player something and penalizing the player for being bad -- and I say this by being a primary tactical escort captain.

There is one simple fix to all of this: Place the requirement on eSTFs that a player must complete the entire quest line up to that certain point (which I won't spoil) on elite difficulty coupled with a ship-based reward scaling system. This will help ensure that a player entering an eSTF is fit for that mission in competency and gear to start an elite STF.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.

Last edited by lordlalo; 10-17-2013 at 02:37 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,125
# 25
10-17-2013, 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickeyredshirt View Post
Yes, it would appear as if older players who knew what they were doing aren't logging in as much anymore if at all. Wonder why?
Nah, most likely they're distracted with other stuff. Am I gonna shoot Borg today or Tholians?
HAIL HYDRA!

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I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 321
# 26
10-17-2013, 02:16 PM
I'd describe most non-premade groups I've been in lately as sloppy and lazy rather than bad. Mistakes are made, but generally it doesn't even come close to being a mission fail because of the excess DPS most groups carry. I don't get the impression I'm surrounded by bad players as much I'm surrounded by players who are now programmed to not really care all that much. The game's now about builds rather than piloting.

Now if you PuG Starbase Blockade, you suddenly see people really struggle. Not with the task at hand in terms of destroying enemy ships, that's easy. But at things like dropping Tac Teams on the freighter to effectively give its shields 4x the uptime. Or realising a battleship hasn't aggroed onto you and is still pounding the freighter. Or spacing themselves out rather than all rescuing one freighter and probably leaving 2 to die. Or knowing when the job on one freighter is done and its time to go look for or help out at another one. Stuff that requires reading of situations rather than sticking to set script and forking out as much DPS as possible.

What will be interesting is if PvE gets a balance pass and tactics become relevant for STFs and some of the rep grind missions again. I wonder how many sloppy players would handle the transition.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 200
Yes there are a huge number of idiots running Elite STFs and even more idiots running regular STFs. The Devs fixed the problem by reducing the penalty on the optional. Now you only get docked a few marks. I no longer yell at the idiots who shoot the generator before the huge tac cube sitting above it.

The funny part is watching all the people try to explain how to do the STF to the noobs. A noob is not going to understand what you are talking about and will never think they are the ones screwing up though their reasons vary widely. Ive seen jackass noobs say, "well I stopped dps at 1%, your stray mine destroyed the generator"
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,549
# 28
10-17-2013, 03:09 PM
Saw one Cure Elite run where some moron in a fed cruiser rushed in and started attacking the cubes. Right off the bat. Tried to talk to him on text. He died like 15x the entire encounter. Finally he joined us and I explained (via team text) nanites first. Then he was shooting the top nanites while the bottoms were in place -- effectively doing NO damage because they were being healed instantly.

I then further had to explain it AGAIN, shoot the bottom, then top, THEN and ONLY then can cubes be attacked.

I didn't want to lose too much time even getting into basic triggers like BoPs vs Raptors, vs Negh that all rush the Kang.


Needless to say we were not getting any help from this moron, he had NO clue not even the most basic idea of what the map was about, and had probably NEVER run an elite STF before in his life.


There should be a limit on joining ESTFs until you have done 20x of the NORMAL level for that given category STF and at LEAST 5 of the normal for that map. So you can't join Cure Elite until you've done 20x space NORMALS, and at least 5 of those had to be Cure Normal.
Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 463
# 29
10-17-2013, 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skhc View Post
I'd describe most non-premade groups I've been in lately as sloppy and lazy rather than bad. Mistakes are made, but generally it doesn't even come close to being a mission fail because of the excess DPS most groups carry. I don't get the impression I'm surrounded by bad players as much I'm surrounded by players who are now programmed to not really care all that much. The game's now about builds rather than piloting.

Now if you PuG Starbase Blockade, you suddenly see people really struggle. Not with the task at hand in terms of destroying enemy ships, that's easy. But at things like dropping Tac Teams on the freighter to effectively give its shields 4x the uptime. Or realising a battleship hasn't aggroed onto you and is still pounding the freighter. Or spacing themselves out rather than all rescuing one freighter and probably leaving 2 to die. Or knowing when the job on one freighter is done and its time to go look for or help out at another one. Stuff that requires reading of situations rather than sticking to set script and forking out as much DPS as possible.

What will be interesting is if PvE gets a balance pass and tactics become relevant for STFs and some of the rep grind missions again. I wonder how many sloppy players would handle the transition.
Quoted for truth.

Wanted: 200,000 Dilithium Special Feature Projects for Romulan skinned Fleet Holdings.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 803
# 30
10-17-2013, 05:34 PM
Did a 5 man fleet defense with 3 other members of my fleet and a randomer, when the borg showed up, the randomer left presuming it to be a total write off at the beginning.

Turns out me and 3 other fleetmates ended up dominating the battlefield with time to spare.


Mirror NX, you know you want it
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