Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,309
# 101
10-23-2013, 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazzagiow View Post
Jadzia Dax was a con officer on the defiant I guess that makes her a tactical specialist as well. Wait no she was a science officer. It just meant she was also a good pilot don't it?
Dax wasn't an Archaeologist. An Archaeologist would never be given a Bridge Officer's spot.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 427
# 102
10-23-2013, 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxbad View Post
Apparently Mary Sue missed the classes on Rotate Shield Frequency, Sensor Scan, Fire on my Mark, EPS Power Transfer, [insert appropriate Tactical and Science Ability]...
Will be somewhat useless with SNB and APA

Edit: And Miracle Worker! Thank you kind person on the bottom of the last page!

Quote:
Agreed. You didn't understand what my point was. There may be a few that do not (Rescuing Deferi Prisoners), but they don't require any abilities to complete and after they've been done once, there is no challenge in repeating them.

There should be more missions that do not require violence to resolve and they should have require some non-combat skills to have a chance to complete.
No one here was talking of "No-Violence" Missions...
I was talking about "Less Damage Centric" Missions, things were you need to use Energy Dampening or Subsystem destroying stuff to disable. Tyken's Rift for complete disabling at least some seconds... Gravimetric Wells to hold (as they now do as far as I could test) and CRUSH your target if it looses Shields or Energy to Auxiliary (Tied to SIF for In-Universe Technobabble)... Stuff like that!

That would be enough and wouldn't need a complete Redesign of the game...

Quote:
The class system is archaic and prejudicial. It is legacy of a population conditioned by an education system and culture which suppresses the ability of people to be socioeconomically mobile.

Don't be uppity! Stay in your place!
Okay now you are in real Hippie territory...

Starfleet needs Specialists... People that excel at something even if it means that they are not as good at something else...

You want an amalgamation of society into a grey, formless blob where everyone is essentially the same and everybody can do anything...
At the cost of nobody being able to do something very good... which only leads to stagnation and in times of war this is a surefire way to grant the enemy a Class A Military Parade through your Capital.
Selor Andaram Ephelion Kiith
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,074
# 103
10-23-2013, 01:50 PM
attack pattern alpha + SNB + Nadion inversion (lol lol no more marion) + miracle worker + sensor targeting assault + high crit rating (possibly a romulan or reman character).

Decloak + Keel you in less than 3 seconds + run away and hit miracle worker if you took some damage.

Hey Cryptic, can you DPS this Error ID 30191178 so that I can play?
**~Reality under scrutiny~**
@haudace
UFP Fleet: Operation Omega Task Force | KDF Fleet: KHG Klingon Honor Guard
Captain
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 686
# 104
10-23-2013, 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by emacsheadroom View Post
Why are we considered Engineer captains, Science captains and Tactical captains? Shouldn't we just be Captains? So here is my idea:

...
Yes, you can argue that this would lead to stupidly overpowered character builds, but the sensible conclusion to that is to buff the more useless abilities to avoid the dreaded cookie-cutter.
"Your" idea is one that I had before you and that at least one other had before me. No matter how it was brought up on the forum the thread went no where. It's not because the idea isn't sound, it's because people are afraid of change.

Captains on ships issue orders and the crews comply. There are no instances in this game beyond the remedial controls for ground AI away teams that are even remotely like that.

And it is Cryptic's fault. They could take what they have now, flip a things around ever so slightly, and make this game far superior to what it currently is - but they don't care to do so. Why should they? There are so many people desperate to be part of Gene Roddenberry's fantasy land, even if it is only a superficial representation, that they'll pay with the last bit of their life's blood to keep the delusion alive.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 759
# 105
10-23-2013, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by packer3434 View Post
I'm not sure I like idea of removing classes all together. If anything I would say add more classes.

These new classes could be a mix between the current ones.

For example you can run an engineer now who is a Geordi or Torress kind of character, why not an operations class who would be more like Data (for example). The operations class would be a mid point between science and engineering.

We have tactical class which is epitomised by someone like Worf, what about a conn officer class like Tom Paris or Ro Laren? Conn officer class would be a mix of tactical and engineering.

The only problem with my idea is that I can't think what the sci/tac mix would be...
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
It would require a total revamp of the captain skills but I could see it.

I agree it would be best to include the trait system in some way. Perhaps by adding a trait buff to the 3 career fields. So that if you choose the tac trait the tac powers work as they do now but a sci or eng power suffers.

OR perhaps a side trait system, where you select a primary, secondary, and tertiary specialization.

Your primary would add the aforementioned buff to the proper skills.

Your secondary could add a bonus to all bridge officer skills in that class.

And your tertiary could add some kind of unique special ability or buff.

So if you went full tac (since that's seems to be what everyone is worried about) you could damage as well as a tac now but your healing/control/debuff abilitys would be weaker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saekiith View Post
People have obviously a problem to understand that for that matter "Command" Should be a fourth choice...
Janeway was and in some form still IS a Science Officer... just that she took the Command Classes too...

Being in Command doesn't mean that you would know every single trick in tactical, engineering and science at once... if your background is Scientific you would still know more about scientific applications than you would about Tactical Maneuvres no matter how much you train the latter...
What if they gave us the option at lvl 50 to respec into one of the other classes or choose a fourth class call it "Command" for the moment with its own set of class traits?
Command class could give a jack of all trades type of abilities different than what is currently availible to the classes maybe a couple of team based trait bonus options, price if at say 750 Zen they either make more cash transactions or players spend more time in game either way cryptic potentially makes money.
If you could choose traits for this potential class what would you choose?
Captain
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 686
# 106
10-23-2013, 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapla1755 View Post
What if they gave us the option at lvl 50 to respec into one of the other classes or choose a fourth class call it "Command" for the moment with its own set of class traits?
Command class could give a jack of all trades type of abilities different than what is currently availible to the classes maybe a couple of team based trait bonus options, price if at say 750 Zen they either make more cash transactions or players spend more time in game either way cryptic potentially makes money.
If you could choose traits for this potential class what would you choose?
I'd choose the trait that doesn't make a class 750 zen.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 522
# 107
10-23-2013, 03:30 PM
Wow. This thread is going places!

So having read over the negative responses, the general impression I get is that most people who don't like the idea have two reasons:

1: It removes diversity.

This is a meaningless non-argument. Our ships provide the diversity of play. Besides which, diversity is an irrelevant concept. Play as differently from others as you like. Being constrained to play a certain way isn't fostering diversity, it's fostering garbage.

People who want more distinction and diversity are completely hopeless at explaining how distinction and diversity are important and good for gameplay besides "because we said so".

2: It will unbalance PvP and lead to cookie-cutter Mary-Sue character builds that are unstoppable!


And my answer is: There already is no game balance, no ship balance and no class balance with regards to PvP. This will never ever change because the guys at Cryptic don't care enough about it to change it. Cryptic decided to make PvP a pointless joke since the game launched and haven't done anything to improve it since.

So who cares? PvP is a meaningless irrelevant exercise. There's nothing to lose and nothing worth winning besides bragging rights for having created the most unstoppable uber pwnage build. Game design should not revolve around such frivolous pursuits.

Just recently, Cryptic released the ultimate "I win" tactical ship, a Starfleet cruiser that can tank like a beast and do more dps than any escort in the game. Cryptic doesn't care about PvP balance, they only care about releasing more uber "I win" Mary-Sue ships. Since Cryptic doesn't factor in PvP balance when they add new stuff to the game, my idea is just as good and viable as any ideas they have.

So my idea has yet to meet any worthy criticism.

Last edited by emacsheadroom; 10-23-2013 at 03:37 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,181
# 108
10-23-2013, 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by emacsheadroom View Post
Why are we considered Engineer captains, Science captains and Tactical captains? Shouldn't we just be Captains? So here is my idea:

Revamp all player characters to have no profession. Keep all captain abilities and make them selectable at every rank. Think of it as a logical extension of the reputation system. Take space abilities as an example:

At Lieutenant, you can choose one of the three:

Attack Pattern Alpha
Rotate Shield Frequency
Sensor Scan


At Lt Commander, you can choose one of the three:

Fire on my Mark
EPS Power Transfer
Subnucleonic Beam


At Commander, you can choose one of the three:

Tactical Initiative
Nadion Inversion
Scattering Field


At Captain, you can choose one of the three:

Go Down Fighting
Miracle Worker
Photonic Fleet


And so forth up the rank structure. And be sure to sell us respec tokens that can reset our choices whenever we feel like it.

Yes, you can argue that this would lead to stupidly overpowered character builds, but the sensible conclusion to that is to buff the more useless abilities to avoid the dreaded cookie-cutter.
No that would be bad. They would have to change what power you can chose at ranks to keep someone from being to powerful.

Lieutenant

Attack Pattern Alpha
Subnucleonic Beam
Miracle Worker

Lt. Commander

Fire on Mark
Sensor Scan
EPS Power Transfer

Commander

Tactical Initiative
Photonic Fleet
Nadion Inversion

Captain

Go Down Fighting
Scattering Field
Rotate Shield Frequency

Something like that would be better IMO
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,344
# 109
10-23-2013, 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by emacsheadroom View Post
So my idea has yet to meet any worthy criticism.
No you just don't like criticism because they are the very reasons the devs have told us are why they won't get rid of the classes.
C:\Users\Public\Pictures\Sample Pictures\banner11.jpg
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 694
# 110
10-23-2013, 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by saekiith View Post
Okay now you are in real Hippie territory...
What's a Hippie?

Quote:
Starfleet needs Specialists... People that excel at something even if it means that they are not as good at something else...
Great. Starfleet can have all the specialized Boffs that PWE can generate. Any idea how many the Boff factory produces an hour?

And players can be specialized, too. If, that's their choice.

Quote:
You want an amalgamation of society into a grey, formless blob where everyone is essentially the same and everybody can do anything...
At the cost of nobody being able to do something very good... which only leads to stagnation and in times of war this is a surefire way to grant the enemy a Class A Military Parade through your Capital.
You not only have no idea of what I want, but you seem to have no concept of liberty.
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