Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 199
# 1 Space Combat vs. the Vaadwaur
09-24-2014, 04:00 PM
Let me begin by saying that I like the direction the story is taking in Delta Rising. I like the gear and ship upgrades, I like the intel powers, and I like the ground combat missions. What I don't like is fighting the Vaadwaur in my ship.

Whenever I see more than one Vaadwaur ship, or even just a single one of those heavy artillery ships, I know instantly that it's going to be a long boring and tedious fight. I get that a main plot point is that the Vaadwaur suddenly have really advanced tech and are tough to kill from out of nowhere, and I get that one of the goals of this expansion was to make things more challenging, but those long fights against the Vaadwaur in space are just so boring. All they do is soak damage, fire off a volley of those tricobalt torpedo things, and use cannon rapid fire; unless of course it's a heavy artillery ship, in which case they also summon MORE ships to do that and drag the fight out longer. They don't do enough damage over time to be a real threat, and once you figure out their pattern they don't really bring anything interesting to the table other than what seems to be a ridiculous amount of hitpoints.

Surely I'm not alone in this. Is this really what more "challenging" gameplay is supposed to be in the single-player story? Because if so, I hate it.
Admiral Katrina Tokareva - U.S.S. Selene, Luna-class Science Vessel
Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Vakarius, D'Deridex-class Warbird
General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Tonrur, Kamarag-class Battlecruiser
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,218
# 2
09-24-2014, 04:40 PM
It's just not just you - however, it applies to more than just the Vaudwaar; includes the Kazon and other races.

Taking that into account, it seems the 50-and-up level scaling is over-inflated, especially at the higher ranks. But with the leveling system still not in a final state, there's time to look this over
Was named Trek17, but still an author.

Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh'. I have nothing against the game/devs, nor any particular wish to talk bad about either, or praise most decisions. Still, it's better to be positive than cynical.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 768
# 3
09-24-2014, 08:56 PM
For future reference i'd like to know more about your builds and ships when you make these threads.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,674
# 4
09-24-2014, 09:19 PM
its your build, not them. your ship has at least 10 times the damage potential you currently tap
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 99
# 5
09-26-2014, 08:57 AM
I have to agree with the OP about fighting in space it is a really boring slog that I don't think I will be repeating when it goes live. The space battles being 95% of the gameplay thus far has not impressed me all that much. The percentage accounts for the 5 planet annoying patrols. Its not so much that the ships can't handle what's being thrown at them but there is a lot of inconsistency with how much damage is needed to defeat the Vaadwaur. Even the Kazon vessels have too much HP for saying their ships are 50 years out of date. The Hirogen vessels are far more powerful than anything we would normally deal with in any alpha quadrant mission at level 50.

The little ground that we do get the Vaadwaur are much more manageable than the space combat. A little bit more ground say maybe one or two of the patrol type sub-missions per the cluster of 5 would go a long way to break the monotony of doing them.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 484
# 6
09-26-2014, 09:19 AM
I don't want to bash you, but it's a problem of the player and their ship and BOFF setup.

I don't have a problem with the Vaadwaur and I know a lot of players who can do a lot better than me.


The Vaadwaur can be killed faster if YOU do better. Even with Mark XII gear without specializations.

Don't forget we will also upgrade to Mk XIII and XIV and the Captain Specializations are also very powerful.

You can pick your daily patrol. Pick one without Vaadwaur if they are really too long and too tedious.
But pardon me if I cannot quite agree that the Kazon already take too much damage.


STO is a very easy MMO, the Vaadwaur ships give you an opportunity to hone your skills in taking out PvE targets quickly that are not absolute target drones.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,893
# 7
09-26-2014, 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trek21 View Post
It's just not just you - however, it applies to more than just the Vaudwaar; includes the Kazon and other races.

Taking that into account, it seems the 50-and-up level scaling is over-inflated, especially at the higher ranks. But with the leveling system still not in a final state, there's time to look this over
I had a direct comparison in one of the latest patrols between a level 50 Vaadwuar cruiser and a level 59 (for some reason the game spawned each type in different parts of the map). The former had 77k health, the latter had 180k.

"Over-inflated" isn't the half of it and I don't think its too much given how extreme this situation is to demand flat out that this problem be addressed (because otherwise DR is not going to be playable. Each mission may be accomplishable but I doubt there will be many out there with the interest and equipment to make it through to the end.)

Last edited by duncanidaho11; 09-26-2014 at 09:37 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,893
# 8
09-26-2014, 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by longasc View Post
I
Don't forget we will also upgrade to Mk XIII and XIV and the Captain Specializations are also very powerful.
Which advances faster, gear upgrades and specializations or experience based leveling?

Sure, one fanciful day people might have the gear and stats to get through normal DR combat like they were able to get through any other piece of STO, including elite PVE's, but to reach that point of mere consistency you have an incredibly long road of grinding through badly balanced content.

That's not a reasonable position.

Last edited by duncanidaho11; 09-26-2014 at 09:37 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 723
# 9 Vaadwaur
09-26-2014, 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reynoldsxd View Post
For future reference i'd like to know more about your builds and ships when you make these threads.
Spot-on, reynoldsxd. Those details are important.

Not having battled the Vaadwaur (on the Tribble server) yet, I wonder if certain T5 builds can handle them (in a prolonged battle), or if the player must utilize T5-U or T6 to succeed.

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Damage_type is a good starting point, although it hasn't been updated with "Delta Rising" details yet. (And I wish STO Academy could provide a database to capture specific builds vs. specific factions, e.g. ship builds to combat Vaadwaur, etc.)

(Apologies if something like this exists; I'm not aware of it.)

For starters, it sounds like FED/KDF/ROM ships need kinetic shield protection against the Vaadwaur's tricobalt weapons.

Any thoughts on what weapon types are working best against the Vaadwaur ships?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,893
# 10
09-26-2014, 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tucana66 View Post

For starters, it sounds like FED/KDF/ROM ships need kinetic shield protection against the Vaadwaur's tricobalt weapons.

Any thoughts on what weapon types are working best against the Vaadwaur ships?
Shield penetrating (thanks to doffs) beam overload followed by a quantum torp volley (with +4 spire quantum torp consoles) works very well. The Vaadwuar generally employ big single targets with only a little frigate/escort support and are very capable of regenerating and redistributing their shields (which is why you want to try to find a way around them and so you can worry about their massive hull points.)

Their weaponry just requires you to worry about point defense. Just be quick selecting mines and torps and you shouldn't have to invest in any special aspect of defence (so you can focus on offense which helps again to try to overcome their massive scaling HP.)


However, even fighting the Vaadwuar in a competent way isn't at all enjoyable. It just takes too much firepower to bring one down (not specifically because they're vaadwuar but because they're [about] level 60 NPC's) and any speculation as to "its just the player's build" seems to me just a cheap forum jab that ignores a critical problem with DR gameplay [and the consequences for release be damned] in favor of scoring a squalid number of points for the ego.

It's not something to be taken seriously.

Last edited by duncanidaho11; 09-26-2014 at 09:52 AM.
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