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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
01-30-2010, 11:57 PM
I was a 3 beam one torpedo until i saw this point. Although 3 beam rear torpedo works pretty nice.

I am all about landing the high yield shot. In PVE against battleships i like a slow head on approach hit the front shield with everything. Then swing around and make them chase me. They usually keep the front shield on you or more often and the rear phaser keeps the opening for my aft torpedo. Otherwise its fire everything every chance i get but when i think a shield is about to fall i save the torpedo.

Now i had to completely change tactics on the Hostage ship. I had to go all beams full offense and whittle whittle whittle relying on sheild and hull repair. I think i was still in my Miranda and havent gotten to it again yet in live.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22 Perfection
01-31-2010, 12:54 AM
This thread is the epitome of the perfect thread... Sheer perfection!

A thread full of useful, positive and intelligent input geared to improve the fun, success and joy of gameplay on an MMO! I think all the information posted here by EVERYONE has been extremely helpful for Cruiser Captains like myself who have it in our blood to helm the flagships of the Federation... (forget that intelligent Escort and Science captains will read this to figure us out) Really, when the forums get wiped on Tuesday, I hope this thread is Reposted and kept permanently.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
01-31-2010, 12:59 AM
I'll just repost it again. I have it saved as an RTF. Whats with the repeated wipes, seriously?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
01-31-2010, 06:06 AM
Outstanding thread! Thank you! I had gotten my cruiser at the end of OB and eventually gave up on it as I was frustrated with it's maneuverability. Your tips have opened my eyes to what I was doing wrong! I was absolutely loading the wrong weapons with limited arcs and trying to turn with everything. Eventually I gave up and bought an escort. I think I'll give cruiser another shot with this info in mind once I get back to Lt.Cmdr.
Cheers mate!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
01-31-2010, 11:27 AM
Again, I'd like to question the validity of using torpedoes over maximising your energy loadouts.

DPS/Burst Damage Potentional

Torpedoes do a fixed amount of damage based upon the skills you have trained and the mods you have equipped on your ship. There is no way to boost this damage, except for torpedo related skills i.e. High Yield and Spread. I do not believe that manuevers like patterns Alpha and Omega boost this damage, however manuevers that debuff a target may work.

On the flip side, energy attacks can be buffed, not only using abilities like Beam Overload or Rapid Fire or Captain skills, but by simply boosting your Weapon Energy levels. At 100%, an array will do greater damage per second than a torpedo even against bare hull, and considering how it's possible to fire multiple arrays at once, the burst disparity isn't even there. And if you have a tactical Captain, Alpha and Omega Manuevers will further boost this damage. Toss in an Emergency Weapons Battery, and your damage will spike tremendously.

Counters

There are fewer ways to mitigate Torpedo attacks than Energy attacks. Energy attacks have to contend with Polarize Hull, Reverse Shield Polarity, Aceton Field, Energy Siphon, and a few others, while Torps only really have to worry about Structural Integrity and Dampeners. Also of note is how more than a few of the energy counters serve a dual purpose, including countering debuffs and inflicting damage on an oppenent.

But then again, Torpedoes have a natural enemy in the form of shields, which every ship has. Knocking shields down is generally the job for energy weapons, and if you're using torpedoes in your set up, you're going to have a harder time doing so. Although at low power levels, a Torpedo's DPS against shields is actually not that bad when compared to energy weapons. If you seriously wish to draw a battle out by boosting your shields, a Torp boat may not be a bad thing if you can keep your oppenent in the firing line, which brings us to the next point...

Angles of Fire

Torpedoes have a 90 Degree Firing arc. This means if you put one fore and one aft, you'll be able to fire a torpedo or use a torpedoe related ability on a target if you shift directions by at most 90 degrees. It may not sound like much, but this can be difficult to do if the target really wants to stay away from your front or aft sides. And while they're doing so, one or more of your weapon slots is idle, your tactical officier(s) have nothing to do, and your damage mods are going to waste.

Beam Arrays on the other hand, have far better coverage with a 250 degree firing arc. You will have complete coverage with one array in front and one array in back, with 140 degrees of coverage for broadsiding. Your tactical officer(s) will always be at the ready, your tactical consoles will always be valuable, and an oppenent will have an impossible time trying to gain a decivisive advantage over you.

So in conclusion, the arguement for torpedoes on a cruiser doesn't seem a compelling one for the simple reason that their damage isn't necessarily greater than beam arrays, while requiring you to make manuevers that are, I think, optimistic. Not to say that there aren't builds where a torpedo launcher would be advantageous, but truth be told, those builds would be more effective on an escort or especially on a science vessel and they don't play to the Cruiser's strengths.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
01-31-2010, 12:53 PM
First and foremost, outstanding post and an overall great thread. Constructive and useful, well thought out and presented, a joy to read and an education. Those that disagree do so respectfully and, in all cases, make points well worth noting! This is what makes STO great.

Okay, enough gushing. I have to start by saying I have not piloted a cruiser in OB or HS. To be honest, I haven't left the bridge of the Miranda. Information given is based on my playing of previous games (STA), my knowledge of the light cruiser (and its comparsion to other classes), and my experience versus cruisers. So after all that jabber, here it is...

Never, EVER, forget to adjust your speed. It serves several purposes.
1) Turn Radius: Acceleration/decceleration increases turn speed/radius. Easily our 'weakest link', increasing turn radius helps to mitigate some of the more nimble clases advantage. With an escort firmily on your 6, you are bound to be getting pounded by it's superior forward weaponary. Quick deceleration followed by a hard increases in speed will, at worst, put the escort at your 4. This will create phaser overlap and the escort will be pounded by beam weaponary. When he scampers to your rear, you hit him with torpedos and the advantage becomes yours again.
2) Distance to Enemy: one of our advantages is our ability to absorb damage. It is important to remember, too, that this is a weakness for our pesky Escort counterpart. By luring that escort closer then opening up weapons fire, it makes it difficult for that vessel to retreat. Also remember that while they are running, their most powerful advatage is AWAY from you. Recoup your damages and go on the offensive.
3) Added dimension: this is not valid for all opponents, but let's remember you will have those players that expect to hit the 'I Win' DPS button. By keeping that player working and extending the battle, you have given yourself a mental advantage over a frustrated Escort captain. With less room for error, the escort cap is even more hindered.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
01-31-2010, 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeeyes View Post
Never, EVER, forget to adjust your speed. It serves several purposes.
1) Turn Radius: Acceleration/decceleration increases turn speed/radius. Easily our 'weakest link', increasing turn radius helps to mitigate some of the more nimble clases advantage. With an escort firmily on your 6, you are bound to be getting pounded by it's superior forward weaponary. Quick deceleration followed by a hard increases in speed will, at worst, put the escort at your 4. This will create phaser overlap and the escort will be pounded by beam weaponary. When he scampers to your rear, you hit him with torpedos and the advantage becomes yours again.
Imo, this is when you dump power into weapons and engines and have a shoot out, while flying away from him. He might have the advantage in firepower and manuerability, but you have the advantage in hull and shield points, and damage mitigation. If you can keep the fight to one shield facing for the both of you, the advantage should be yours. If he doesn't chase you or can't keep up, that's when you try to bring him into your broadside, either by getting a significant lead on him and turning to face him or flying opposite to him after he's broken off the attack (he goes clockwise/counterclockwise, you go counterclockwise/clockwise respectively).

Of course, there's always the possibility that the Escort just hits that damn hard, in which case, trying to get him to overshoot you or turtling (power to shields and weapons) may work.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
01-31-2010, 03:28 PM
they need to sticky this post
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
01-31-2010, 05:21 PM
This does need stickied, its the most viable discussion on cruiser tactics. The best is its all viable. I'll add to it if I can and go the route I tried in open beta which I found fun and exciting.

Once I reached LtC and got my shiny new cruiser for my engineer. I went with 1 beam weapon fore and aft, torp fore, and mines aft, resistance console, tac console I usually went beam improvement, science sensors for some extra detection although it really didn't matter for my build. Some would make an accurate point that im spreading my skill across several weapon types, but hear me out.

First off, as far as boffs go, I was very defence oriented with some viability for support. I went high yield, emergency power to shields, engineering team 1, reverse shield polarity, and science team one. All this coupled with the general abilities engineers get, evasive manuevers, rotate shields, and brace for impact, I was very very hard to kill. It wasn't uncommon for me to survive single targeting by 4-6 klingons during pvp, (given i had team support in the form of dps'ing them while i tanked).

I would basically go gung ho, all power to shields, and the rest to weapons upon the initial charge into the enemies. While you get into the middle of them target whichever target is being focused by your team if there is one, but being first in worry more about keeping your enemies across several shield facings, you can only rebalance so fast. All the while keep dropping mines and firing torps at targets who wander in front of you, or that you can actually turn to reach. Do not be afraid to switch targets to fire your high yeild torp when you cannot use it against your primary, this will increase dps and convince some klingons not to go all weapons power), with the cruiser its more about taking advantage of opportune targets than making them. 360 degree fighting as many have said.

The benefit of the mines here is that you can drop em and forget them, your in the middle of the fight, anyone behind you has a reason not to be and anyone circling you will likely draw them, all the while you don't have to worry about having to blow evasive (which I reserve for retreat) to hit the same target with fore and aft torps, or in the event of a head to head, hitting the one you bypass in this fore and aft shields, in fact, if one comes at you head on his front shields are going to be weak when he heads into mines. Yes the enemy can target them, but thats 5 less shots that are going to my shields/hull if they do... every 8 seconds, and many do target them, even untintentionally via auto targeting. FYI mines against an unshielded hull using uncommon quantums mark 4 with some skill in them were doing about 700-800 dmg per mine. II think I was seeing around 1000-1200 on crits.

Once focus targeted, keep balancing shields, and if you see a large torp salvo feel free to pop brace for impact to mitigate any bleed through kinetic damage (honestly most of the time it was bleedthrough attrition that would get me more than shields dropping many times, and if you play it right by the time your shields are done, and my abilities were on cooldown, i had brace back for the retreat). To start though once shields drop to about to 75% while being focused, its time to pop rotate shields for mitigation and to regen that lost shielding (remember shield facings regen is determined in part by how much of them there is, when you go yellow/red all around, do something about it if you can because your not regening as much as you would otherwise).

As the fight continues pop your abilities as needed, next would usually be my emergency power to shields, and a bit later science team 1, then with all my shield reinforcement abilities on cd, my shields would start to succumb, hopefully your team have done some damage by now, and as your shields start to go down for the count, divert power to weapons and pop reverse shield polarity and give em what for for most of the duration, being mindful to switch back to shields relativly quickly before or when reverse polarity goes so you should be sitting back with full shields, a partially damaged hull, and if you have points in your boff skills, they should be starting to come back now one by one on 1 minish cooldowns, rinse repeat. This plays to the cruisers strength of survivability, and really annoys klingon escorts.

You may have noticed that I have not used evasive manuevers yet, this is my save my arse ability moreso than even reverse shield polarity. If at some point the fight is just not going to go your way, you have outsurvived your teammates and there are 3+ klingons left, its time for a tactical retreat, i divert power to engines and remainder to shields, usually by the time I am to reverse shield polarity in my sequence of skill pops I know if its time to break off, and it makes a great retreat skill for protecting the rear shield that they are all going to be focusing on when you make your break. Key is not to pop evasive until your engine power is fully diverted and your aiming away from the battle with enemies only behind you, once you make your break simply keep reinforcing your rear shield and balancing and pop brace for impact if its up. The resulting distance will work in your favor to lessen the cannon attacks. After your 10km out any allies respawning should be returning hopefully, and based on the skills coming back and your damage, you can choose to return to the fight or full impulse away until reinforced, repaired, and have skills back.

This worked well for me in pvp battlegrounds, mainly because with the exception of reverse shield polarity, my boff skills had low cooldown times.

I'd like to hear other peoples strats/setups, post away cruiser captains.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
01-31-2010, 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CnB
Torpedoes have a 90 Degree Firing arc. This means if you put one fore and one aft, you'll be able to fire a torpedo or use a torpedoe related ability on a target if you shift directions by at most 90 degrees.
Just a minor maths point, but it's 45 degrees.

If you have torps fore and aft, the furthest that an opponent can be away from them is directly alongside you, at either 90 or 270 degrees from your course. That's 45 degrees from the edges of both the fore and aft torp arcs (and incidentally, right in the middle of your broadside, assuming you're using beam arrays alongside the torps).
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