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# 21
10-29-2013, 08:50 AM
If you look at other ships with repeated names, most of them don't have consistently superior accomplishments:

The first Bellerophon's defining accomplishment was fighting at Wolf 359, while the second appears to have been a diplomatic ferry more than anything, it was Ross's ship, but he appears on a different bridge when we see him on the viewscreen in battle.

The first Defiant's defining accomplishment was getting trashed by the Tholians (It's not clear if the Federation knows the role it then played in the Terran Empire, but we probably wouldn't consider that a good thing either way). The second and third played key roles, often leadership ones, in almost every phase of the Dominion War and its related conflicts, however, and STO appears to have given it the suffix treatment for that record.

Now, the Enterprise, before the registry was immortalized we know there were three ships called Enterprise - XCV-330 (of which we know nothing), NX-01, and NCC-1701. NX-01 and NCC-1701 both went farther, accomplished more, learned more, and met threats no single ship should be expected to meet, and came back victorious. I'm not even sure the Defiant's record really matches up if you account for how ill prepared the NX-01 and her crew were or just how much longer the NCC-1701 was in service.

Only after those two ships (and possibly the first was just as accomplished for its time), was the registry immortalized, distinguishing the Enterprise line as truly legendary, a cut above the merely extraordinary and outstanding.
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# 22
10-29-2013, 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
Is "Enterprise" the only ship line to get lettered incarnations?

In other words, There was a Constitution Class Defiant, and there was a Defiant Class Defiant, but they had separate and distinct registry numbers.

Why? Shouldn't it have kept the same reg number, and our well known Defiant be the Defiant-A?

Browsing through the Memory Alpha Ship List shows many other reused names, but with distinct registries. (Hood, Intrepid, Endeavour, Constellation, etc.)
It could just be because the NCC-1701 had an exceptional number of historical achievements attributed to it during its various missions. Though you could argue that your ship also has to have saved the Earth, the heart of the Federation, to get such a prefix attached. The Enterprise-A was given after Kirk and crew saved Earth from the Whale Probe after all.
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U.S.S. Endeavour NCC-91771 - Nebula-class
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# 23
10-29-2013, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnkirk4 View Post
No it's not a bad example. There's Air Force 1 (the plane), and Air Force 1 actual (the MAN). Since the late 60s the president's plane has been called Air Force 1, and it's a pretty safe bet to say it will be called that for the foreseeable future. There may be dummy call signs that are used for security purposes overseas, but in the U.S. it's always Air Force 1. If that bothers you, how about this: Miss America is always Miss America, even though it's a different chick every year.
You completely misunderstand what the Air Force One designation means. It's a callsign. Not a name for the plane. Not a name for a person. A callsign used to delineate that the President of the United States is on board a USAF aircraft. As De pointed out, put the President in a USAF training glider and even it becomes Air Force One.

Similarly, Marine One and Navy One, or Air Force Two/Marine Two/Navy Two for the Vice President.

It in no way means a single, specific aircraft or a single specific registry number (Truman went through I think three different aircraft, all with different registries and names, and all of which carried the callsign Air Force One while in use by the president). The given name of the plane doesn't change based on who sits in the chairs, only the callsign.

Argue colloquialisms all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that there is a very specific meaning to the term that isn't what you want it to be.

Last edited by stirling191; 10-29-2013 at 08:58 AM.
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# 24
10-29-2013, 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnkirk4 View Post
Seriously? The Enterprise is the Federation Flag, always. Like Air Force 1 will always have that designation, even after the actual plane is replaced with a newer model.
Airforce 1 is a call sign, not an aircraft identifier. it was mission and personnel specific. If I remember correctly the aircraft that is typically Airforce 1 would not be called such if only the first lady/man and the kids were aboard.

I think the Enterpise refit of TMP was 1701, it was traumatically scrapped in Search 4 Spock, thena new ship was named enterprise, but it was a recommissioning of an existing Constitution refit class, so it is to distinguish it as not the original "chasis" that flew into VGER.

I think the Enterprise B, C, D, E, F, G, H, W, PP, etc would ahve different registries, but there was a break down in thought between the end of the Original Series movies and the release of TNG.
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# 25
10-29-2013, 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
You completely misunderstand what the Air Force One designation means. It's a callsign. Not a name for the plane. Not a name for a person. A callsign used to delineate that the President of the United States is on board a USAF aircraft. As De pointed out, put the President in a USAF training glider and even it becomes Air Force One.

Similarly, Marine One and Navy One, or Air Force Two/Marine Two/Navy Two for the Vice President.

It in no way means a single, specific aircraft or a single specific registry number (Truman went through I think three different aircraft, all with different registries and names, and all of which carried the callsign Air Force One while in use by the president). The given name of the plane doesn't change based on who sits in the chairs, only the callsign.

Argue colloquialisms all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that there is a very specific meaning to the term that isn't what you want it to be.
We were typing at the same time

I didnt know Trumen went through 3 different aircraft. He must have been hard on them.
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# 26
10-29-2013, 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milanvorius View Post
Airforce 1 is a call sign, not an aircraft identifier. it was mission and personnel specific. If I remember correctly the aircraft that is typically Airforce 1 would not be called such if only the first lady/man and the kids were aboard.
To make this even more clear: when the plane that he flew around with during his presidency flew George W. Bush back to Texas after he had left the office, it wasn't called Air Force One during the flight.
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# 27
10-29-2013, 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnkirk4 View Post
If that bothers you, how about this: Miss America is always Miss America, even though it's a different chick every year.

And W Bush on an aircraft would not be called AF1 at this point, that is only reserved for the current president. The old Miss America's are not the current Miss America. Its like Highlander, there can be only 1!
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# 28
10-29-2013, 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milanvorius View Post
We were typing at the same time

I didnt know Trumen went through 3 different aircraft. He must have been hard on them.
He was I think the first president to use military aircraft. Before him everyone flew commercially. If memory serves the first two were retrofitted bombers, while the third was a custom built craft based off a bomber chassis.
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# 29
10-29-2013, 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
He was I think the first president to use military aircraft. Before him everyone flew commercially. If memory serves the first two were retrofitted bombers, while the third was a custom built craft based off a bomber chassis.
Makes sense with the cold war firing up and nukes out there. I bet bombers had longer legs. I will have to look up when mid air refueling started.
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# 30
10-29-2013, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
Yup, but when it comes to this I always remember a discussion I once had with friends:
does it have to a be self-powered aircraft to count?
Because if not, then theoretically a hang glider could be called "Airforce One" when the president happens to be stuck under one.
What if the president jumps out of AF1 in a parachute, is the chute then referred to as Airborne 1?
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