Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 111
01-31-2010, 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avantos View Post
It's really be nice if people actually, I don't know, READ the posts before responding...
The issue isn't combat maneuverability, it's out of combat that is the problem.
A Galaxy turn rate of 5 is abysmal and needs to change.

The Galaxy class Starship was the flagship of the Federation, and was supposed to be the pinnacle of technology. Are we to expect that the Galaxy, backbone of the fleet, is nearly twice as slow as the Negh'var?

All those posting on here, THINK for a minute. The starting ship, the Miranda class, has a turn rate more than twice as fast.
Do you honestly think that is fair and balanced?
Can you imagine trying to turn around and pick some loot up when you're facing the opposite direction in a ship that slow?
Do you think your friends would get annoyed that they have to wait arouind every time you need to turn around?
Do you really think that the Galaxy should only have a turn speed 1 point above the Klingon Carrier, when the Carrier is, what, nearly 3 times the size of the Galaxy?

No one EVER said that the Cruiser ought to turn like an Escort, or even a Science vessel.
All that is being requested is a simple increase for the Galaxy class turn rate so that flying one is more enjoyable and less of an exercise in anger management.
quoted for absolute truth
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 112
01-31-2010, 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visual-Echo View Post
Or more realistically using 2 eng consoles add only 1 point of turn rate.
Consoles with the same modifier dont stack... Neither do consoles with the same bonuses on other ship equipment.. i tested it.

i.e. Deflector dish with +17 to sensor array + a +15 to sensor array console only = +17 ... wasted sci console slot.

You do NOT get +32 it picks the piece of equip. with the highest modifier and uses that one only.

There are so many people flying around with incompatible stacks that they really should patch the game to not allow you to hose yourself.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I agree with the original post; cruisers turn way to slow; not sure what the thinking was that had them make science ships out fight and out manuever cruisers; but it sucks; I spend most of my time about half speed or so just to get them to TRY to get them to hit some other sheild; good think I got my skills set for more emergency power so I can boost the one shield that gets pounded like crazy; other shields only matter when fighing groups, cause as it is; I spend enough time as debree and space dust and it is a good thing we dont take damage for hitting stuff cause nearly every ship I fight crashes into me and not a darn thing I can do about it

Thank goodness I get to fire both phasers on a broadside cause I cant usually get my ship turned in the arc to fire a photon torpedo. I can understand the tactical guys doing circles around everyone; but sheesh; the science guys too?

would be nice to actually be able to get to a fight before those other guys kill everything.

At this point as things are; no reason to group as dont get to do diddly in groups unless your all cruiser snails.

As for out of combat, I havnt noticed any particular difficulty other than trying tofind out where my mission are and how to get there; havent had any manuerver problem as speed and turn ratio doesnt seem to matter much; besides; gotta BIO sometime; now if I was grouped and my buds had to wait on my snail-like pace and turn ratio; well; I would probably be much more annoyed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 114
01-31-2010, 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visual-Echo View Post
I know there are something like 60+ pages on this topic in the archived files, but I thought we should maybe give it a fresh start.

Personally i fell the cruisers turn rate needs to be about 2 or 3 points higher because.
Currently we cant turn fast enough or balance power between all shields fast enough to make our shields very effective. more often than not we loose 1 shield and then hull with the other 3 still mostly full even though we develop the nervous twitch of spamming the balance power button with every thing we do.
We, at present have a hard time even picking up loot after mission. the turn rate on a t4 Cruiser is honestly so bad that at balanced power levels it takes 61+ seconds to turn 360!!!
The turn rate items in the game now do little in the way of helping us because 10% of 0 is still 0. Or more realistically using 2 eng consoles add only 1 point of turn rate.
Other Cruisers and big ships in the game all have faster turn rates. I.E. the Klingon's.

Even tho i do not believe we should have too for 2 or 3 points in turning, I'm sure all cruiser captains would agree that wed trade almost anything for this. a gun slot, some max speed, some shields or hull, anything.

Other possible fix ideas could be a cruiser specific turn rate boost while at 1/4 speed or full stop. Or maybe, boost all ships turn rate by 2 or 3 if needed to keep things balanced. Possible even adding a skill in the game that raises turn rate by a number rather than a percentage that any captain could Learn. Maybe even with each rank add 1 point to turn rate.


At any rate I feel this is severely compromising the fun factor. And, I have tried other ships, but Cruisers have the enterprise so plz give us a hand here. at least do it for the fun!
There are many ways to improve turn rate. I like the cruisers the way they are personally. You can equip aft weapons to be just as effective as fore weapons so an enemy in front of or behind me will take the same damage regardless. As far as balancing power between shields I have not had a problem at all. Cruisers base hull strength is enough to get your shields online without taking much damage. If done right you can stop your ship completely in mid combat and take damage while balancing power to shields between fore, aft...etc. while firing all weapons. Too easy already IMO. I want more challenge. Please don't make it any easier
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 115
01-31-2010, 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disownation View Post

There are creative ways to get out of any situation. I haven't had any problems yet. If you can assess the situation and go beyond a solution of merely "turning", you will succeed where other's have failed.

There are other options beyond turning.
Its a nice theory but in actuality... it doesn't work +(

I have flown a Galaxy, which is something that most of those playing the game right now cannot say.
So I'm not talking out of the corners of my mouth hoping no-one calls me out on this.

The Cruiser needs a turn rate increase, more specifically the T4 and 5 Cruisers.
Turning is a problem both in and out of combat, but is one that can be most draining and taxing once out of combat as that is really when it is felt the most.

But in combat it presents a problem with shield drain and weapon placement.
Shield drain in the sense that we are unable to rotate our ship in order to present a new shield facing, which allows us to regen the weaker shield facing and again in turn increases our longevity without the reliance upon Engineering BO's.

Out of combat we are unable to keep up with our friends, as we are both slower and less agile than the other two ship classes and in some cases our loot despawns before we can get to it.

Now I can elaborate on these all day long, but I'm hoping that myself and others like myself won't have to.
And that both the public and more importantly the developers will see/hear/read the issues that we have raised here and on multiple other occasions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 116
01-31-2010, 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling847
Consoles with the same modifier dont stack... Neither do consoles with the same bonuses on other ship equipment.. i tested it.

i.e. Deflector dish with +17 to sensor array + a +15 to sensor array console only = +17 ... wasted sci console slot.

You do NOT get +32 it picks the piece of equip. with the highest modifier and uses that one only.

There are so many people flying around with incompatible stacks that they really should patch the game to not allow you to hose yourself.
Not the results I got when I tested it in Open Beta. Polarize Hull definitely benefited from 2 Hazard System science consoles. And I know people have tested weapon ones and they stack as well.

I know certain ones don't stack, like shield capacity. But the skill ones seem to.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 117
01-31-2010, 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMRob View Post
There are many ways to improve turn rate. I like the cruisers the way they are personally. You can equip aft weapons to be just as effective as fore weapons so an enemy in front of or behind me will take the same damage regardless. As far as balancing power between shields I have not had a problem at all. Cruisers base hull strength is enough to get your shields online without taking much damage. If done right you can stop your ship completely in mid combat and take damage while balancing power to shields between fore, aft...etc. while firing all weapons. Too easy already IMO. I want more challenge. Please don't make it any easier
We are NOT asking for it to be made easier.
We are not asking for uber-mode to be enabled on Cruisers.

We are however, asking that we are actually allowed to enjoy playing as a High End Cruiser.

And the balancing shield power is more harmful than helpful.
When you reinforce one shield the others loss strength and are now taking damage across all 4 shield facings at the same time. This leaves you with a single operative shield facing and 3 downed shield facings.

Now tell me... what person would not take advantage of that situation?
Or do you honestly still expect them to continue to pound away at the operational shield facing?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 118
01-31-2010, 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axterix
Not the results I got when I tested it in Open Beta. Polarize Hull definitely benefited from 2 Hazard System science consoles. And I know people have tested weapon ones and they stack as well.

I know certain ones don't stack, like shield capacity. But the skill ones seem to.
Towards the end the consoles seem to have been broken.
Some wouldn't work at all, while others would only accept the last console placed in the slot.
So say you put a +15% to weapons followed by a +10% to weapons, the game would only recognize the +10% console and completely ignore the better +15%

But all consoles seem to be affected by DR.(Diminishing Returns)
So there is no 15+15=30% stuff going on in the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 119
01-31-2010, 05:56 PM
This complaint on Cruisers really doesn't have anything being said about game balance. Those complaining don't offer what they lose if they get more manueverability. All they want is more turn rate.

If they get more manuev, then they are starting to be comparable to a science ship in turn rate, yet they still keep more weapon mounts, more hull, more crew, etc? Uh....no. Then there is no reason for a science ship.

If you take away the extra weapon mounts, hull, crew, etc, then they aren't exactly a cruiser anymore, are they? I've flown cruisers, escorts, and science ships - they are well balanced. They all have their pluses, and their drawbacks.

Drawbacks/Strengths:

Cruisers: Turn rate / Its a tank, lots of weapon mounts
Escorts: Fragile / All offense, lots of speed
Science ships: No strengths or big drawbacks - its a jack-of-all-trades ship.

Currently things are balanced. To change the balance on one ship means that the other 2 will need to be rebalanced as well. It will be a never-ending process as the complaints keep coming as one thing gets changed after another.

Star Wars Galaxies Devs did this. They kept changing the game balance because of "community suggestions and complaints".....look what happened to that game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 120
01-31-2010, 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verkruk View Post
So say you put a +15% to weapons followed by a +10% to weapons, the game would only recognize the +10% console and completely ignore the better +15%
Yet having 2 +20 hazard skill ones made for a better Polarize Hull than 1 +20 hazard skill one.

And having multiple of the same resist ones also worked fine.

But multiple shield capacity ones did not.

Not sure if turn rate ones stack properly or not.

Quote:
But all consoles seem to be affected by DR.(Diminishing Returns)
So there is no 15+15=30% stuff going on in the game.
Not the case. If I have 2 10% resist consoles, I get 20% worth of resists, which, due to how resists are calculated, works out to a 16.7% reduction in damage. The exact same thing I'd get with a single +20% resist item.
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