Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 131
02-01-2010, 06:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveer
Ignorant? How was it ignorant? petulant and sarcastic i agree to.

You make a suggestion of make higher tier cruiser ships have better turn rates, and try and rationalise it by saying we would take a hit elsewhere, yet have no suggestion how you would then balance that out against the rest of the game. Do all ships get the extra turn rates added on or do you just envisage cruisers only to be allowed? What makes cruisers the only ones to be given certain attention when other classes have already been nerfed to bring them back in to line? And yes i understand that 61 seconds to do a 360 turn is a long time, but why doa full circle, just to be going the same way you were already heading is complete and utter nonsense of an argument. Correct me if im wrong but cruisers high end have the same amount of weapon slots front and back? Are shielded up to the hilt? Have pretty much the same BO slots? And generally taken by engineers, who can quite happily fix most things on their ships. Try thinking game balance instead of how to balance your own playstyle to make it better for you against other players.


And of course, i obviously can't play any other class, just because my avatar is a klingon, that would be absurd wouldn't it?
we use 360 degrees because it is a constant point to compare - you are right that there isnt a situation where you would need to do a 360 but it does drive home the point.

Im quite happy for all ships to get +2 turn rate if thats what the devs want but I personally dont see a need for it - with just 3 ships needing an increase (the Klingon Carrier, the Galaxy and the Tier 5 cruisers) and only to a piont still well behind the other ships I cant see it causing any Imbalances...

at Tier 4 with our proposals the Turn rate would be:

Cruiser 7, Science 12, Escort 17

the other ships will still fly rings around the cruiser but the cruiser isnt so horrifcally unmanuaverable
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 132
02-01-2010, 06:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody View Post
we use 360 degrees because it is a constant point to compare - you are right that there isnt a situation where you would need to do a 360 but it does drive home the point.
This isn't quite true. There were several instances in OB when I was in a group while flying my Galaxy where I had to turn about to loot, then turn back about to rejoin the group (in essence, doing a 360) as they were moving on to the next spawn. In some instances, my group expressed annoyance in having to wait for me (despite my using a 100 AUX setting for non combat maneuvering), and in some instances, the group didn't even bother waiting for me before engaging the next group.

I've also had to do the above when solo. In any case, its not fun, and after a while, I went back to my heavy cruiser. Which was just as effective but less headache inducing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 133
02-01-2010, 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveer
Ignorant? How was it ignorant? petulant and sarcastic i agree to.

You make a suggestion of make higher tier cruiser ships have better turn rates, and try and rationalise it by saying we would take a hit elsewhere, yet have no suggestion how you would then balance that out against the rest of the game. Do all ships get the extra turn rates added on or do you just envisage cruisers only to be allowed? What makes cruisers the only ones to be given certain attention when other classes have already been nerfed to bring them back in to line? And yes i understand that 61 seconds to do a 360 turn is a long time, but why doa full circle, just to be going the same way you were already heading is complete and utter nonsense of an argument. Correct me if im wrong but cruisers high end have the same amount of weapon slots front and back? Are shielded up to the hilt? Have pretty much the same BO slots? And generally taken by engineers, who can quite happily fix most things on their ships. Try thinking game balance instead of how to balance your own playstyle to make it better for you against other players.


And of course, i obviously can't play any other class, just because my avatar is a klingon, that would be absurd wouldn't it?


You're whole argument is based around the assumption that the turning rates right now are "balanced".

They are not.


The fact that my galaxy is a hindrance to a group more than anything else is clear evidence of that. so please shut up. your argument is flawed and you obviously have no clue what you are talking about. thx for shutting up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 134
02-01-2010, 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verkruk View Post
Only Tactical Officers and Escorts get Attack Pattern Omega.

Evasive maneuvers isn't for turning its for getting away and distributing damage across multiple shield facings as a form of damage control.

15% of 5 is what? Nothing useful.

High Turn Rate Engines that require you to drop to low impulse speeds to gain the effect at all.
Meaning your opponent is now even more free to control the pace of the battle and will have an even easier time of evading your attacks! Wonderful.

I had all 4 of the Cruiser class skills maxed out.
They do not stack, they each apply to the Tier that they are applicable to.

Even spending 100 shield power is not enough to keep up your shields.
Sure against a single target or multiple NPC controlled ships, but in PvP...
Or against another player, sure they won't kill you, but you won't be killing them either cause you don't have enough power in your weapon system to even make them flinch.

And lastly.
How do you know thats how they are supposed to stay?
Have you played as a Cruiser? A Heavy Cruiser? A Galaxy class Cruiser?

It isn't fun.
And if it isn't fun then that means it is implemented incorrectly.
Why? Because Cryptic themselves have said so. They have said that they have tried to stick to cannon
(which slow turning cruisers is not cannon) but that they have also tried to make it fun. And if it came down to fun vs cannon, fun wins everytime cause fun is KING.
Yes ive played a cruiser, Infact I had a t5 cruiser in OB.. and your claim that you cant keep your shield Is simply laughable.. because It simply dosnt make sense... I got enough experience with cruiser to know its wrong...

as for the engine... thats kind of the point... you have to sacrefice some speed for extra turnrate, and no It wont make you any easier to "evade"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 135
02-01-2010, 06:50 AM
Well I like the fact they don't turn like a fighter. They fight more like a battleship. If you did play ST Legacy then it would feel almost the same. The smaller ships can turn faster, but don't have as much shields, but like in DS9 if you recall the Defiant had better then stock hull platting.

I love my cruiser. I know I can't turn on a dime or perhaps fire the hardest hitting shots, but I have seen people that are one of the other two. I outlast them in combat since I do use the arrow keys and some wit with my fighting style. I just don't go charging in. Before, you go in after full impulse you will notice it takes a moment for your weapons to be at full again. I personally wait for this. It does make a difference.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 136
02-01-2010, 06:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munx View Post
as for the engine... thats kind of the point... you have to sacrefice some speed for extra turnrate, and no It wont make you any easier to "evade"

the base turnrate is "next to non existent".

so adding a few % more of "non existent" does nothing at all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 137
02-01-2010, 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManiusPrime View Post
Well I like the fact they don't turn like a fighter. They fight more like a battleship. If you did play ST Legacy then it would feel almost the same. The smaller ships can turn faster, but don't have as much shields, but like in DS9 if you recall the Defiant had better then stock hull platting.

I love my cruiser. I know I can't turn on a dime or perhaps fire the hardest hitting shots, but I have seen people that are one of the other two. I outlast them in combat since I do use the arrow keys and some wit with my fighting style. I just don't go charging in. Before, you go in after full impulse you will notice it takes a moment for your weapons to be at full again. I personally wait for this. It does make a difference.
have fun the tier 2 and tier 3 cruisers are the best "years" for Cruisers once you hit tier 4 you will see what we are saying trust me
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 138
02-01-2010, 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by claydermunch View Post
You're whole argument is based around the assumption that the turning rates right now are "balanced".

They are not.

The fact that my galaxy is a hindrance to a group more than anything else is clear evidence of that. so please shut up. your argument is flawed and you obviously have no clue what you are talking about. thx for shutting up.
No my argument is only flawed as it contradicts yours, and the only reason your ship is a hinderance to others, is quite frankly, because you are in it. You have yet to point out any other means by which you are not balanced to other ships. It even states that cruisers turning circles are supposed to be less than other style ships, but you have not be able to grasp that and as such decline in to shabby trolling. The only person who needs to be quiet is yourself, unless you can come up with a substantiated argument.

And for the record, yes i do feel the ships are balanced correctly, if they all turned the same, hit the same, and tanked the same, there would be no need to have different class ships.

I see other threads talking about solutions for turning circles on cruisers, but all you can do is whine and flame other users.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 139
02-01-2010, 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveer
No my argument is only flawed as it contradicts yours, and the only reason your ship is a hinderance to others, is quite frankly, because you are in it. You have yet to point out any other means by which you are not balanced to other ships. It even states that cruisers turning circles are supposed to be less than other style ships, but you have not be able to grasp that and as such decline in to shabby trolling. The only person who needs to be quiet is yourself, unless you can come up with a substantiated argument.

And for the record, yes i do feel the ships are balanced correctly, if they all turned the same, hit the same, and tanked the same, there would be no need to have different class ships.

I see other threads talking about solutions for turning circles on cruisers, but all you can do is whine and flame other users.
have you actaully READ what we are saying?

you come off as tho you think we want our cruisers doing loops and moving like escorts - WE DONT!!

the current cruiser line up in turn rates is:

Tier 2 : 8
Tier 3 : 7
Tier 4 : 5
Tier 5 : 6

all we are suggesting is:

Tier 2 : 8
Tier 3 : 7
Tier 4 : 7
Tier 5 : 8

Escorts will still run circles around us as will the (non Titan) Science ships - and the cruiser will be able to keep up with the group - it will still be the slowest turner but not criplingly slow.

as for the other threads saying how to help cruisers turn - i very much doubt they have played to tier 4 and we allready KNEW those tricks and yet we are still here...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 140
02-01-2010, 08:57 AM
I actually agree to your argument for making the cruiser more playable, but what comparison upgrades would you see on other ship styles?

Does not the T4 cruiser get bigger than the previous ones and the T5 even larger still? should it too be able to turn as quickly as its predecessors? (although the T5 weirdly turns faster than the T4...) Yes its space and quite the vacum, but to move a larger object, you would need a larger amount of energy, but that is another discussion entirely.

If you increase something on one class of ship in game, you would have to make concessions to other players who are probably quite rightly moaning about things that don't go the way they want in the ships they are using. Like for instance, giving tac ships an invulnerability so they can get off a shot instead of being focus fired (sound tactic if you ask me)?? (taken from another thread by the way) Yet making a ship invul just so they can shoot, sounds kind of making them god mode to me.

If you are going to argue that the turn rates on a certain ship need to be modified, then everyone will want them changed for thier respective classes, even if it is just by 2 points, i fully understand that only 2 points would make you turn slightly faster than a fat man in the tub trying to get the soap. But people will see it as cruisers being boosted while they are neglected.
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