Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,275
# 31
11-03-2013, 12:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Fixed a few bits there.


FAW has 50% maximum up-time.
I thought faw was still 15s up... and cannon skills where changed to 10s. Could be wrong haven't been in a game in a few days.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 320
# 32
11-03-2013, 03:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
All good points.






Just think about that for a second.


Think about the fact that CSV has a 66.67% uptime vs. FAW's 50%.

Yet FAW builds in PvE are completely dominant when it comes to overall DPS scores.


That's how bad the power creep is right now.
Actually that was the point I was trying to convey.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 36
# 33
11-03-2013, 03:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doffingcomrade View Post
I remain unconvinced there is a problem. Firstly, the nature of STO PvP is that Arenas are a team game: Showing to an arena without a team is equivalent to showing up to a gunfight without a gun. YOU WILL LOSE. As such, the fact that a 5-man team doing this can stomp a bunch of random buffoons is not a sign of anything: A 5-man team of ANYTHING can stomp a bunch of random buffoons. Meanwhile, this specific build is specialized to the point where it has a number of very glaring and diverse weaknesses that can be exploited by a large number of counter-builds at considerably lower cost. A single console, or skills which are the staples of a type of ship, easily stop this nonsense cold. That no one bothered to bring this to the fight is a sign that your team is grossly malformed and incompetent.
True Point. FAWmades usually only beat randomteams or 5-Eskort-premades without Romulans or Science abilities.
FED
Raumpatrouille Elysion

KDF
Angriffsflotte Omega
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 341
# 34
11-03-2013, 03:51 AM
At least back when BFAW had 100% Accuracy, it was still limited by normal uptime and energy drain remained a factor.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 883
# 35
11-03-2013, 05:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
I thought faw was still 15s up... and cannon skills where changed to 10s. Could be wrong haven't been in a game in a few days.
10 up 10 down with two copies.
Behold, The Jorf Guide
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,280
# 36
11-03-2013, 06:41 AM
I'm sorry but I disagree with that nerf list. Instead these are the problems I see.

1) Plasmonic Leech Console. This thing is stupid strong great on any ship and their is literally no reason not to equip it. It really needs it's skill mod cut in half at least.

2) Romulan Beam. Zero power drain wasn't a big deal when your other weapons tanked the power levels anyway but this is now the icing on the cake that allows beams to stay at high power. A 5 drain would be much more balanced.

3) Attack Pattern Beta. When you have a team of FAW boats spamming this skill at some point because of timing you will end up with 2-4 copies applied changing your resistance from reducing that DEM and bleed damage by 30% to instead increasing it by 50%. This is the key 'tech' that makes FaW boats so strong. Not FAW. Not A2B. Not omega 2 pc. APB. Needs. Nerfed. Cut it's reduction in half and I would still slot 2 copies on most ships it is that strong.

These changes would not hamper PvE casual play. They would not negatively effect tons of other little things in the game. Although A2B does need the bug fix so I stop having 30+ AUX left after activation...just throwing that out there. It would also help slow down those PvE speed runs a tad.

PS: My A2B boat is a DHC D'Kora btw none of my beam boats use A2B as I find it inferior to alternative options.

Last edited by bareel; 11-03-2013 at 06:45 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 320
# 37
11-03-2013, 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
3) Attack Pattern Beta. When you have a team of FAW boats spamming this skill at some point because of timing you will end up with 2-4 copies applied changing your resistance from reducing that DEM and bleed damage by 30% to instead increasing it by 50%. This is the key 'tech' that makes FaW boats so strong. Not FAW. Not A2B. Not omega 2 pc. APB. Needs. Nerfed. Cut it's reduction in half and I would still slot 2 copies on most ships it is that strong.
What if they would make APB not stack with other copies?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 205
# 38
11-03-2013, 08:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sohtoh View Post
So pretty much nerf everything that beams have going for them?

I do agree that if dem/tet glider are applying there damage twice that should be fixed.

Overcapping benefiting only beams isn't right, it should be all or nothing. However, if overcapping is removed completely, AND drain resistance is also nerfed; beams will be back to being ineffectual. It is the combination of the two that has given beams the boost. Please lay off the Nukara Console, it doesn't really add that much accuracy to beams to cry for a nerf. In parsing combat logs, my accuracy with it only went up about 3%.

If you dont want to remove overcapping 'completely' then you admit you want a broken mechanic to still half work because beams wouldnt be viable otherwise?

Lets not forget about the massive romulan crits (yes to balance the game we will indeed have to exclude non/romulan toons because that simply is what it is)

Lets not forget the buff to EptW (a well deserved balance pass in my book) all to make beamboats more viable.


I personally believe that extra accuracy is in fact, pvp wise, a real problem for FAW boats.
First of all for the fact that beams dont require real skills, perhaps dbbs might at some level, but weapons that simply auto acquire targets and requires very little arc. So you basically give extra accuracy to these weapons that pretty much fire at all times, full coverage.

What about old escort hybrids with a mix of DBB and dhcs? Do the benefit as much from the nukara console? Even now that double taps got nerfed? Those fellas take on this whole console just to make their beam overload hit with a tiny bit more probability, the investement and solid returns are much lower then your precious beam boat. Hell they even need to put on a tractor beam with 6 grav gens, time it properly before they can somewhat guarantee their beam overload will hit.

If anyone can recall devs saying they wanted to boost beam overloads accuracy a little bit be my guest and repost the official discussion, im pretty sure when they gave us the nukara set they didnt see any problems for making beam boats more powercreepy

I hope you see what Im trying to say and to change your viewpoints on it.
Ive been testing my own Scimitar beam build in PvP lately and im often getting 6 to 10+K hits pretty much chained on people, sounds more like FaW equals Mini Beam Overload build without cooldowns.


I doubt the shield raping has much to do with dem/tet glider applying twice per real hit, or beta stacking. Its the sole effect of overcapping/cutter drain res + nukarq console


Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
I'm sorry but I disagree with that nerf list. Instead these are the problems I see.

1) Plasmonic Leech Console. This thing is stupid strong great on any ship and their is literally no reason not to equip it. It really needs it's skill mod cut in half at least.
Again, the only reason why this thing is OP because of overcapping, so fixing plasmonic is just ignoring the real problem and woukldnt solve anything. Fairly easy these days to get to 175 wep power without plas.
Read the book of the Rihannsu.

Last edited by mightylepton; 11-03-2013 at 08:34 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 467
# 39
11-03-2013, 09:29 AM
Reduce accuracy during FAW cycles - That many shots in rapid sequence, and they all hit? Improbable. Remove all accuracy stas from weapons and consoles in the FAW equation, and remove the ability to critically hit.

Give Feds the aceton assimilator.

Increase power consumption during faw cycles, remove the ability for doff (Marion) powers to work during faw cycles.


Just a few suggestions. I wouldnt normally participate in these discussions, but the fact is that every single match I have been in in the last few weeks has been dominated by whomever has the best FAW3: I parse every game I play.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,280
# 40
11-03-2013, 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightylepton View Post
Again, the only reason why this thing is OP because of overcapping, so fixing plasmonic is just ignoring the real problem and woukldnt solve anything. Fairly easy these days to get to 175 wep power without plas.
And when you do so their is a sacrifice somewhere. Be it shield power, engine power, or tanking your AUX with A2B (if it was not bugged that is) whereas the leech is just simply out of line with the amount of power it gives at the cost of a single console slot and needs to be reduced. Just like Graviton Pulse needed a reduction as it was too powerful a CC tool for the cost of a single console. Or Energy Siphon was adjusted awhile ago.

And I'm not saying APB shouldn't stack, I'm saying the reduction to armor it grants should be cut in half.

These are two things that are vastly over performing for their relative costs. Before you can tweak something being out of line (beam damage when overcapping) you need to look at the causes (where is all that overcap power coming from and why is DEM shredding hulls so fast) instead of just being silly and removing a former bug now embraced as a mechanic to relegate STO PvE back to Escorts Online.

And try using dual cannons instead of DHCs if you want to take advantage of power overcapping they work much better with it, not to mention drain reduction applies equally to all energy weapons.

Or we can watch them pull another 'double tap'/'mine critz'/'etc' style fix resolving nothing and breaking other unrelated things.
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