Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 332
# 1 Need help picking a KDF ship
11-02-2013, 06:37 PM
Just got my Ferasan engineering captain to 50. I've got a fed engineer and fed tactical both flying vestas, and a romulan sci flying a fleet mogai, so I finally decided to crack down and get my ferasan levelled up. I hadnt played the character in a very long time, and the KDF has changed a bit since I played that faction last.

So, I'm looking at what ship to purchase. I've noticed that raptors seem to be one of the least flown KDF ship classes - any particular reason why? I rather like the appearance of the qin/birok, sleek yet not frail looking like the BoPs. At the moment the character is flying a neghvar, but I've never been big on cruisers, i like mid-range ships (like the mogai and vesta, for example - large and able to withstand damage, but not spacewhales).
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,961
# 2
11-02-2013, 08:37 PM
I am flying a Qin with Engineer and loving it. The shield is a bit weak but the ship is capable otherwise. If you don't care about PvP then you will find it a perfectly fine ship.

I am planning to get fleet Vor'cha ... since Cryptic won't give us K'vort.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,010
# 3
11-02-2013, 08:46 PM
If you want to try a Raptor, get the Mirror version. Cheap since its the lockbox drop right now, and has a useful eng ensign instead of a wasteful extra tac ensign. Likewise there are Mirror versions of the Battlecruiser and Carrier available. But for a ship to spend your token on, I'd say a BoP, because there's no mirror or C-store counterpart, so really this is your only chance to get one (short of a 4-module fleet version or paying 120k dil later), and there is nothing else in this game that flys like it.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,037
# 4
11-02-2013, 09:52 PM
Probably the pivot point of the Qin being 'off' to many people's tastes, the raptors being basically escorts that have been outclassed by what Feds have (no 5 tac console, and no 5 fore Raptors KDF side), on top of the ships barely being canon in class(only Enterprise had raptors on screen, IIRC) combined make them less desired.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,324
# 5
11-02-2013, 10:36 PM
The Qin Raptor is basically the Defiant Retro.

It's a bit slow and the turn seems to turn people off they are good ships, but even the Fleet version feels outclassed by what's available in the game for other factions.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,268
# 6
11-02-2013, 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom61sto View Post
Probably the pivot point of the Qin being 'off' to many people's tastes, the raptors being basically escorts that have been outclassed by what Feds have (no 5 tac console, and no 5 fore Raptors KDF side), on top of the ships barely being canon in class(only Enterprise had raptors on screen, IIRC) combined make them less desired.
Pretty much this. There's a number of factors when it comes to the unpopularity of the Raptor class. I feel the turn axis/pivot point issue and the lack of overall choice are the biggest problems, both of them quite long-running. The devs full well KNOW there's a pivot issue with the Qin model (regular and Fleet) and possibly the Somraw/Fleet Somraw, and simply refuse to do anything about it.

The lack of choice is a problem, as well. The Qin is basically a KDF equivalent to the Tactical Escort Refit, just with higher hull and slightly less turnrate, and the Fleet version doesn't even have 5 tac consoles. And again, turn axis is borked, making it only fit for PvE.

The Somraw is a decent ship, with a good boff layout, good hull, decent turnrate, and has that built-in cloak. It's only one ship, though. The only other fleet-level option that the KDF has for escort-like ships is the Scourge. That's also a good ship, though lining DHCs up can be a little tricky due to the design of the ship.

That's two GOOD escort-like ships for the KDF at the Fleet level, with the Guramba being another decent-enough destroyer in the C-Store. The options are limited, is what I'm trying to get across here. Which is why the KDF could use another C-Store destroyer or non-borked Raptor.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,268
# 7
11-02-2013, 10:50 PM
As for what ship you should look into, OP: If you're in a decent-enough Fleet, you could spring for a Fleet K't'inga or a Fleet Tor'kaht. Those are essentially the Fleet-level equivalents to the Vor'cha, and they maneuver better than a Negh'var. You're not gonna find something quite like the Mogai or the Vesta in the KDF lineup. The Vesta is like a science ship with aux cannons and a hangar thrown on, with lots of boff flexibility. The KDF has no equivalent to it, as Cryptic has not seen fit to grace us with one. As for the Mogai (going off the Fleet version here). . .that's like a battlecruiser/escort hybrid with a Romulan battlecloak. KDF has no equivalent to that, either, as it easily outshines the Raptors in both flexibility and performance. It's not as maneuverable, yes, but it has a battlecloak and a universal Lieutenant along with higher shield mod.

If you're used to crunchier ships like the Vesta or the Mogai, you probably won't like the BoP class. Especially in PvP. It cannot take much in the way of punishment. The Raptors simply won't match up the same way, though you're welcome to try either the Fleet Somraw or the Fleet Scourge. They're both decent escort-level ships, for their part.

If you want a science ship with good hull and somewhat-low shield mod, the KDF has the Fleet Varanus for that. It's our only true science ship. 11 turnrate, 1.32 shield mod, acceptable boff layout.

My official suggestion would be to try the Fleet K't'inga or Tor'kaht, though. Really. They're both surprisingly maneuverable, though they don't maneuver as well as either the Vesta or Mogai. We make do, nonetheless.
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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,394
# 8
11-03-2013, 03:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by telbasta7386 View Post
Just got my Ferasan engineering captain to 50. I've got a fed engineer and fed tactical both flying vestas, and a romulan sci flying a fleet mogai, so I finally decided to crack down and get my ferasan levelled up. I hadnt played the character in a very long time, and the KDF has changed a bit since I played that faction last.

So, I'm looking at what ship to purchase. I've noticed that raptors seem to be one of the least flown KDF ship classes - any particular reason why? I rather like the appearance of the qin/birok, sleek yet not frail looking like the BoPs. At the moment the character is flying a neghvar, but I've never been big on cruisers, i like mid-range ships (like the mogai and vesta, for example - large and able to withstand damage, but not spacewhales).
First of all, congarts to bringing your Ferasan to lvl 50. Have two KDF cats of my own.
Prepare to soon be in love with KDF ships as they have the tendency to really grow on you through time as you play with them.

Now as to your questions, since your Ferasan is an engineer you'll have a decent choice of ships that could witstand damage in combination with your career, which are also not spacewhales.

I currently run Mirror Qin Raptors on two of my chars. It's really a solid ship and one that can really grow on you. The reason you don't see a lot of the raptors is because of their borked pivot, but honestly, once I got used to it and that the Raptor turns and moves like that I adapted and don't see it as a huge issue anymore.
But I'd recomend to go and get a Mirror Qin out of the exchange, they're ridiculously cheap for a ship that good and you'll get the chance to play around and get the feeling of flying a Raptor so you can see if that's the ship for you. I found that the Mirror Qin can take a solid amount of punishment even with a tac.captain.
Other from the Raptor department would be the fleet Somraw which is basically a Mirror Qin is stats, but with boosted hull, extra sci.console and shield mod. for extra durability. I know more than a few veterans that could vouch for this ship and I even plan on getting one myself to upgrade from the Mirror Qin.

Now, due to your engineering carrer you'll be able to get quite the decent amount of survavibility out of the destroyers as well, while being able to turn and packing a punch.
First of all, there is the Guramba Siege Destroyer - one of the most popular ships in the KDF. It would work just like the Raptors due to the same Boff/Console setup with minor variations in hull/shield mod., but you'll get to have fun playing with the Javelin.
The Fleet Scourge Destroyer is another solid choice for a destroyer worth looking at if you're checking out this class.
And if you're doing good with EC or maybe lobi, the Krenn Destroyer is a great ship. I know it's carbon copy of the Mobius and doesn't have a cloak, but it really has a great setup and stats. Just got one recently and I'm in love with the thing. It's an amazing ship and one of the best Cryptic designs IMHO.

Battlecruisers. Yes, I know you said you're not big on them, but I think that there are a couple that fit your requirement of good survivability and not spacewhales, especially with the changes to RCS consoles and the new cruiser comm arrays.
First of all - the Fleet K'tinga. A Klingon classic, falls in the area of lighter cruisers so it has escort like hull, but cruiser shield mod and setup with a great turn rate of 11 for a cruiser.
Then is also the K'maj (Fleet Kamarag). A vastly underrated KDF ship (cause I don't see much of them) for some reason, but in fact a very very good cruiser with turn rate of 10.5 which falls in the nimble category in my book.
Finally the Tor'kaht - arguably the best KDF battlecruiser availible for now. And rightfully so, this ship can take punishment, deal damage and still move admirably for a cruiser if set up right.

But honestly, in my opinion even if you said that you're not big on cruisers - the requirements of being large (but not too big), able to withstand damage and move decently fall on the battlecruiser department - somewhere in between the K'maj and Tor'kaht. I think these might be what you're looking for.

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Last edited by shpoks; 11-03-2013 at 03:48 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 182
# 9
11-03-2013, 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shpoks View Post
But honestly, in my opinion even if you said that you're not big on cruisers - the requirements of being large (but not too big), able to withstand damage and move decently fall on the battlecruiser department - somewhere in between the K'maj and Tor'kaht. I think these might be what you're looking for.
.....I agree with Shpoks. I'd look at destroyers and cruisers before I'd settle on a raptor..


I think the choice would depend heavily on what you want to do with it. PVE or PVP?
FYI, I have tactical toons and I don't do much in the way of PVP at all, I do mostly ESTF's.

.....For PVP, I don't think there is a KDF ship worth paying zen for or grinding dilith for. I think it depends on your fleet and how well you integrate your play style with them. Which makes the ship less important than strategy and communication.
.....If you're pubbing PVP's be ready for a steady diet of disappointment regardless of what ship you choose.

.....For PVE, Any KDF ship will do. Pick the one that you want and go for it. You can do ESTF's with any of them. Some you'll have to work harder at than others.

I have a heavy BOP, Qin heavy raptor, & the bort cruisers. If I want to fly fast & aggressive I fly the BOP. If I want max dmg output, I use the tac cruiser. If I want max durability, I use the eng heavy cruiser.

The Qin heavy raptor just seems to fall into that unhappy middle ground where it doesn't max out either role. While it packs more of a punch than the BOP and moves better than the cruiser, it really doesn't excel in any area.


.....I don't know why the raptors don't fare better for the KDF. They have the same basic layout and capacities of fed escorts. They don't have the innate healing abilities that feds can bring to the table by using all human BOF's but otherwise they "should" be just as capable as a fed escort. But my fed escorts have always fared better than my raptor even when using nearly identical weapons and BOF layouts.

Last edited by tggrinc; 11-03-2013 at 08:57 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,073
# 10
11-03-2013, 10:38 PM
I've used the B'Rel, the Mirror Qin, the Vor'cha on my eng, and now the Fleet Somraw for my tac, and I like it. The Fleet Somraw has the same boff layout as the Mirror Qin, but it turns a lot better (the Qin is a pretty big ship for an escort, I believe someone here once called it a pocket battlecruiser, and it really is. That said, it still manoeuvres better than any battlecruiser). I also really like its aesthetics.

The Fleet Tor'khat or the Fleet Qin is probably the closest ship to a Mogai the KDF has. The Mogai has a more tac focus, and manoeuvres better, while the Tor'khat has an engineering focus and can tank better, while still doing damage. The Fleet Qin has the same HP and tac focus in its boff layout, but lacks the flexibility the Mogai has with its universal LT. Both ships though lack the Mogai's battlecloak.

You could also wait and see what the next c-store KDF ship will be. It'll likely be a battlecruiser and probably a revamped Negh'var (I hope so, at any rate).
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