Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 620
# 61
11-10-2013, 04:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijimithy View Post
I don't get why threads like this burst into flames at times, yes BFaW is one of those skills when 4 people use can be troublesome but what happened to people trying to stay alive long enough to annoy people who use it? You can't win every match but if I am to lose I still use it as practice in staying alive after all its a game not real life. Oh and on a side note you can get past BFAW spam you just need to be fast and get behind the ships; granted you wont get behind all the ships doing it sometimes but thats what your RSP, TSS and EptS is for to buff you while its on and then you can get cross healed or something.

I find Adapting is easier than crying Nerf most of the time
maybe you care to explain how you keep a escort (or healer ...thou healers are pointless now) alive with rsp when you can't keep a bug ship with jevonite alive due to bleedthrough or get close to faw spam.If a rsp is 11s maybe you have a secret way to pop a cruiser in less than 11 seconds ... cruisers already having rsp III on global cd all the time .

If you say "get 5 scis to sci cheese and subnuc " ...then where is the damn point in having escorts or wanting to play healer?

I think you talk about other game.
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 604
# 62
11-10-2013, 05:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijimithy View Post
I don't get why threads like this burst into flames at times, yes BFaW is one of those skills when 4 people use can be troublesome but what happened to people trying to stay alive long enough to annoy people who use it? You can't win every match but if I am to lose I still use it as practice in staying alive after all its a game not real life. Oh and on a side note you can get past BFAW spam you just need to be fast and get behind the ships; granted you wont get behind all the ships doing it sometimes but thats what your RSP, TSS and EptS is for to buff you while its on and then you can get cross healed or something.

I find Adapting is easier than crying Nerf most of the time
You gonna pay for our respec tokens then?
Yeah, thought not.
Funny how any other game I've played, using broken mechanics is deemed cheating and bring an instant ban from servers.
Even funnier is how an honest gamer can't get anywhere in this game without lowering themselves to outright abuse of a broken system.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 257
# 63
11-10-2013, 06:49 AM
you should have known better getting in a 1v1 in a game that had mechanics clearly not built for such competition.

You lost because you fled the batle, after not being able to kill him before his tactical retreat, which was a perfectly reasonable action for him to take, when the alternative was to sit there like a fool and get slagged. Running away and cloaking is no different then popping your aux2bad rsp3 and putting it on global cooldown - Its annoying, and you may even think it is dishonerable, but like I said, you had set yourself up for a 1v1 in a game with mechanics that clearly arent designed for a 1v1 - and before anyone says they are, take matches just like this for example.

1v1 is the stupidest thing people do in this game, I particularly like it when aux2bad rsp gcd dem/faw LoR Babies try to convince my silly bop to get in one with them. Ego gratification much?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,598
# 64
11-10-2013, 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijimithy View Post
/snip

Oh and on a side note you can get past BFAW spam you just need to be fast and get behind the ships;

/snip
Um...that's a curious statement. Given that vast majority of ships produce the least damage out of their rear arcs in general, obviously trying to sit on their tushie in a 1v1 situation is where you're going to want to be...in general. There's nothing special about trying to do it against a single player using FAW. Just like you want to stay out of the fore arc of the cannon guy, you want to stay outside of the broadside on a beam guy.

It's very curious in the team environment, though, how many people set themselves up as the target by doing that. They're reducing their speed and thus their own defense to sit there - not literally sitting - but it requires far more control to stick on the tushie. That attacker is screaming for the SNB, VM, Scan, Tractor, et al from another enemy player - setting the attacker up to be the target as that FAW boat presents broadside. Or heck, in a situation against multiple FAW boats - they're just making themselves that much easier to be hit by the others, reduced Def leading to increased Crit and quicker death.

Adaptation, as you mentioned (outside of the cost do so, to keep up with it, which I'm sure Cryptic enjoys...meh) - can mean many things. Using standard tactics isn't really adapting...
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 726
# 65
11-11-2013, 03:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
your lucky if an enemy FAW boat just spams FAW the whole time, 1 person is being spared the brunt of ts firepower. the only thing truly out of hand is scimitars with beam arrays.

cannon and BO vapers are still the most deadly and effective killers. cruisers just arent harmless anymore.

Agreed. Damn vapors always trying to steal my luck charms



Quote:
Originally Posted by logicalspock View Post
Any PvP that relies on complicated builds is going to have powers and abilities that exploit game mechanisms to optimize a role, but even as little as a month or two ago, there were wide varieties of people making a wide variety of builds.

Now, things are so broken that you can spend 50% of the time spamming a 4 Pi Steradian arc of DPS equivalent to a traditional DHC build, so everyone is flocking to this exploitative build-style because, unlike an escort with DHC, there are few tradeoffs. You do not have to keep anyone in your firing arc. All you have to do is fly in a circle and press the space bar.


If all they're doing is fly in a circle and press space bar, then they're doing it wrong. The trade off methinks is team support in the more traditional role.



Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
While the particular toon that I fly around going wheee on has changed, that flying around going wheee in of itself hasn't.

Before Willard and his blipping T'varo, I flew around with Plague in his Chel Grett. Before Plague, I flew around with a preS7 tooon (deleted with my S7 rerolls) Sci in an Escort spamming Torps, Grav Wells, and TBRs...going wheeeeee. Before that, it was some other toon (my memory's not what it was)...before that, again some other toon going wheee.

It's casual pew pew fun - always has been - always will be. Getting blown up doesn't shrink my genitalia...for those that feel it does for them, well - they might not have as much fun.

Sure, I've made the odd off the cuff comment at somebody when they patted themselves on the back trying to inflate their egos while dwelling in sheer ignorance of what's going on...but that's what, once or twice a year if that? Likely when my sugar is high, I'm tired, my internet is acting up, and I'm gassy... heh, so yeah...

It's just pew pew fun...somebody's going to die. Sometimes it's them, sometimes it's you...get back in there and pew pew. Have fun, eh?
"Indeed, have fun kill bad guys"

Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo View Post
Its more balanced now with FAW boats than before when I could fly around arenas with my escorts and hardly ever had to worry about cruisers at all. Now I have to pay attention to them. Any ship can kill me as it should be.

DPS cruisers used to be only for clearing spam and support dps but now new builds and strategies have been developed and widespread to the masses.

I still have fun with all my current builds in PvP whether tacsort, sciscort, tac cruiser, engie ganker or Sci healer.

YES! Welcome to cruisers online ... I mean Star Trek.



Quote:
Originally Posted by seansamurai1 View Post
Balanced?

Sooo basically a limited firing arc heavy hitting weapon, you know, DHC, the weapon thats designed to be V powerful gets out DPS'd by a weapon with much much much bigger firing arcs is seen as normal then?

Or the fact that escorts, ya know, the ships that are supposed to be small, fast and deadly but have the trade off of a limited firing range and firing arc and a BOff setup that needs to be balanced between offensive and defensive, is now totally outclassed by a ship that whilst bigger and heavier (thus slower but stronger), has the superior survivability setup with BOffs, virtually no blindspots when shooting but throws out more DPS that the very ships that are supposed to do the DPS but thats seen as normal?


If a DHC escort is not outperforming a dps cruiser, they're doing it wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
i dont really understand why people want them to be something else. do they want escorts to be something other then zippy cannon and spike boats? this is what cruisers are, those are the tools they have been given, and they are useing them. a cruiser not using AtB, FAW, and DEM is called a healer. we are lucky cruisers can have such range of jobs, thanks to AtB.

Correct, right on point again Sir Drunk


Quote:
Originally Posted by logicalspock View Post
The problem is, there is no tradeoff. If you put cannons or dual cannons on a cruiser and use cannon scatter volley, you realize very quickly that there is a huge tradeoff between your ability to do high DPS and your ability to keep your target in your sights.

If you put beams on your cruiser and do a A2B+FaW build, you still do the DPS but now you do not have the tradeoff of firing arc.

You are seeing more and more escorts trying the same build because they can often do more damage simply by speed tanking and using an A2B build with FaW than they can with a traditional DHC build.

That is a pretty big indicator of an imbalance.

Either the output needs to be readjusted or we just need to eliminate cannons as a unique damage type and make all weapons calculate damage in the same way.
Again, then those 'escort pilots' were just better suited to a cruiser. Not everyone can be good in an escort and if they aren't outperforming their cruiser setup while they were in an escort, they're doing it wrong. *note I said cruisers and not scim DREADs, that's a thread all its own

Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
PVP is fun!

you just gotta be okay with metagame.

have fun kill bad guys!

-acceptance-

The Tao of Horizon. +1


Quote:
Originally Posted by seansamurai1 View Post
You gonna pay for our respec tokens then?
Yeah, thought not.
Funny how any other game I've played, using broken mechanics is deemed cheating and bring an instant ban from servers.
Even funnier is how an honest gamer can't get anywhere in this game without lowering themselves to outright abuse of a broken system.
Pay for your own respec tokens. The rest of us grind for them whenever there's a new season or patch. As an honest gamer I do quite fine thankyou... But what about the children!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by orondis View Post
As someone who was PvPing about a week or so after the games release, I have to say no.

FAW in a 1v1 match is pretty even. 1v5 (or should I say one fawer in 5 vs 5) and the skill tickles. FAW only becomes an issue when it's a majority of a team using it, but that goes for pretty much anything in this game, including and especially dual heavy cannons.

As for less experience players, if we were to equate PvP with PvE difficulty, it'd be well above elite STFs. Sadly a not so insignificant portion of PvP pug could barely handle a normal STF. They're also likely only doing PvP for the dailies* and as such have no desire to optimize their builds for it. As such these guys will always be cannon fodder, whether they're being hit by FAW, DHCs, transphasics or sci-spam.

Also don't forget that a majority of the hardcore PvPers are using some serious gear, like elite fleet shields and borg-2piece. Hardcore PvPers are used to fighting and beating other hardcore pvp players with that equipment, while a good few pugs are equipped with drops.



*Why I have no idea.

5 ESTs can be done in under 2 hours easily and give you 8300 dilithium (and that's being highly pessimistic) and the Breen dailies can be done under 15 mins and give you 2400 dilithium. PvP is actually the worst method to grind it, given how matches can go on forever.
There you have hit the core of the issue methinks. The "not"-average pvper will grind and grind to get whatever gear best optimizes their build no matter how seemingly insignificant in percentage.

What I've read that people touch upon when they say its op are the following.

It's op (like with ANYTHING else that is decent to begin with) when used in multiples in a group setting... therefore TEAMS are OP *twirls mustache* Mmmyes quite. Ugh my nipples, they HURT.
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Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.

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Last edited by talzerotwo; 11-11-2013 at 03:46 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 620
# 66
11-11-2013, 03:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by talzerotwo View Post
If a DHC escort is not outperforming a dps cruiser, they're doing it wrong.

You cant get 3000times proc with dhc.Also to get even close you need to remove all/or almost all heals from escort.Now go check how is that rsp III on global cd on cruisers then compare the meh damage from a escort with the damage from a cruiser + rsp on global cd

Last edited by captainedna; 11-11-2013 at 04:00 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 726
# 67
11-11-2013, 04:02 AM
rsp3? why would I ever want to use that? O-o
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Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.

Like my alien? Watch THE VIDEO
Need custom graphics for you or your fleet? Click HERE
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 604
# 68
11-11-2013, 04:19 AM
Virus in his awesomeness has already done the figures.
You should check them out one day.
Then you might stop saying everyone else is doing it wrong!

Any other game, ever, what people do here is a kick-able and ban-able offence.
Shame cryptic don't give a s**t and just allow the abusers to ruin the game for anyone other than the highest of top players.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 620
# 69
11-11-2013, 04:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by talzerotwo View Post
rsp3? why would I ever want to use that? O-o
is not if you need it or not ...you can equip it and have it at global cd.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 182
# 70
11-11-2013, 04:51 AM
It can be fun but it can also be very unfun at times. When your in a fair and somewhat even match, it's a blast. When your facing a pre made and getting stomped, it's not. If the match is not fun, then leave and re q. The next match could be a lot better.
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