Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 43
Why is there dialog branching if, depending on the action taken, braching always ends up at the next map?

Branching is just the same as any programming language, EG:-

if a=b then do this else if a!=b do something else

not, if a=b then do this else if a!=b do the same thing

this is what happens with multiple dialog branching in the foundry editing tool.

One such scenario for multiple dialog branching would be:-

imagine this, your ship is sent to investigate signals coming from satellites around a planet, so you start the mission, on the map, you place your ship inside some rock debri, there you monitor some ships warping in, but your sci officer asks if we should scan the area, now this is where multiple branching would work, you either say "no, initiating a scan would give away our position", that would end the map, you would send a report to Starfleet, etc etc, then warp out, and continue on to another mission, or, you could say "yes, start the scan", but now, doing this would branch off to another map that ends up in a space battle.

As it stands, current dialog branching always ends up at the end of a dialog, regardless of choice.

As I see it, currently, dialog branching is only fit for nothing else but text only missions, you might just as well say, it's a reflection off the old text based adventure games.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,948
# 2
11-07-2013, 06:17 AM
Dialog branching can be used for making things happen on the same map.

Let me try to give a very simple example;

MAP A:
- Good mob (invisible)
- Evil mob (invisible)
- Player Spawn point
- Satellite (with a task, you place this satellite behind the mob).

When you (as the player) starts the map, you get a dialog box, you can choose from:
1) Scan the area and let people know that you mean no harm
2) Scan the area and let people know that they are breaching fed/kdf space

When the player chooses (1), you can change the Good mob state to visible and keep the Evil mob invisible.

The same with (2), only the other way around.

You could create two (or more) different storylines inside a map, depending on which choices the player picks. You could try CSG2 (in my sig, FYI it's a playtest version and missing the final map) which uses this technique in the last two maps (Kalferi & klink ship).
^^ I am Stoutes, and I approve of my message ^^
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,381
# 3
11-07-2013, 07:53 AM
While what happens in the story tab has to happen, any details outside of that can play out very differently. You may only have an objective that says Reach the End of the Maze. Whether you face a complex puzzle you have to solve or fight an assimilated Gorn on the way changed be changed based on choices the player makes in dialog.

There's also the fact that branching dialog allows for a more interactive conversational experience vs. a book in a box approach.

The key is to know where the hard walls in the Foundry are and where you can build dynamic elements around them.

@greendragoon
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 200
# 4
11-07-2013, 09:19 AM
Also, let's not forget that branching dialogue is a NARRATIVE MECHANISM. It's primary purpose is to allow for a variety of conversations, allowing the author to exercise their narrative creativity and allowing the player to have a more immersive and self-directed experience.

As the OP focused on and others have answered, branching dialogues are also a MECHANICAL MECHANISM, but as others have noted, the ability to attach triggers to individual branches of dialogue allows the experience outside of the dialogue to be enriched.

Without branching dialogue, the Foundry experience would be much more lackluster.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 43
# 5
11-07-2013, 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoutes View Post
Dialog branching can be used for making things happen on the same map.

Let me try to give a very simple example;

MAP A:
- Good mob (invisible)
- Evil mob (invisible)
- Player Spawn point
- Satellite (with a task, you place this satellite behind the mob).

When you (as the player) starts the map, you get a dialog box, you can choose from:
1) Scan the area and let people know that you mean no harm
2) Scan the area and let people know that they are breaching fed/kdf space

When the player chooses (1), you can change the Good mob state to visible and keep the Evil mob invisible.

The same with (2), only the other way around.

You could create two (or more) different storylines inside a map, depending on which choices the player picks. You could try CSG2 (in my sig, FYI it's a playtest version and missing the final map) which uses this technique in the last two maps (Kalferi & klink ship).
I looked at every map I created and there isn't anywhere in map properties that has 'triggers', the only buttons present are "General", and "backdrop"

I created a snapshot of one of the map properties, but I can't see in here where to attach it, so instead I created a screen video of my foundry process:-

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/u4rvhtn0qi2hshu/XxbstbD4Ry

There are 2 files, one is the MPG, it's that one that shows how I created a mission and couldn't figure out after the last dialog branch how to use 2 maps, depending on what choice is made in the branch.

Last edited by martok16; 11-07-2013 at 02:51 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,381
# 6
11-07-2013, 08:34 PM
You can't trigger maps only objects/npcs on maps. Even Cryptic missions can't branch maps.

@greendragoon
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 43
# 7
11-08-2013, 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreendragoon1 View Post
You can't trigger maps only objects/npcs on maps. Even Cryptic missions can't branch maps.
Well, as it can't be done, I guess I'll just have to wait until Cryptic decide to change the tools for the better, with actual 3D object in-world placement and manauverability, and maps that can be attached to dialog branches.

Thanks for everone's help.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,150
# 8
11-08-2013, 07:38 PM
As far as I can tell, the Foundry is designed to produce only railroad plots with fake choices, so it really doesn't serve any purpose to even have dialogue since the user cannot change the outcome by engaging it. Just throw in more stuff to PEWPEW, the Foundry is only good for making farms anyway. The only thing you otherwise accomplish is looking obnoxiously pretentious without actually constructing anything of substance.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,278
# 9
11-09-2013, 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doffingcomrade View Post
As far as I can tell, the Foundry is designed to produce only railroad plots with fake choices, so it really doesn't serve any purpose to even have dialogue since the user cannot change the outcome by engaging it. Just throw in more stuff to PEWPEW, the Foundry is only good for making farms anyway. The only thing you otherwise accomplish is looking obnoxiously pretentious without actually constructing anything of substance.
I don't know if you noticed but the whole game is like that. Get off your high horse.

The worst offender by far is not any mission we've written, but one of Cryptic's: Episode "Romulan Mystery", mission "Divide et Impera". If you're paying attention you can tell fairly quickly that SPOILER there's something seriously wrong about Admiral Zelle, but the mission railroads you into being unable to do anything about it.
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Last edited by starswordc; 11-09-2013 at 07:25 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,598
# 10
11-09-2013, 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starswordc View Post
I don't know if you noticed but the whole game is like that. Get off your high horse.

The worst offender by far is not any mission we've written, but one of Cryptic's: Episode "Romulan Mystery", mission "Divide et Impera". If you're paying attention you can tell fairly quickly that SPOILER there's something seriously wrong about Admiral Zelle, but the mission railroads you into being unable to do anything about it.
That is very true, I sometimes feel the game lets me down , but then i have been spoiled by other more interactive single layer games, The reality is, in an MMO we have to the same end point, from the same start point on every mission

But hey, '' It's not the destination so much as the journey ''

And to that end i try to use as few story board elements as i can , while putting up dynamic map changes and puzzles on the path, many of which are affected by your dialogue choices using triggers


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