Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,276
# 11
11-10-2013, 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
the number of on shot procs FAW creates inst a bug. its the fact that every beam array fires 10 shots per cycle.
I'm not claiming its a bug... however Bort at one point went out of his way to make it clear that rapid fire did not improve your chance to proc... seems faw in fact gives you twice the chance to proc... which includes weapon procs... meaning double the elachi hits ect.

I am not saying it isn't intended... I have simply never seen a dev jump on any of these threads and claim it was. When that happens my current leave of absence to swing a lightsaber for awhile may just become more permanent. I would hate to really think the Cryptic guys are that unintelligent.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 228
# 12
11-10-2013, 04:46 PM
I'm not sure it improves cycle based procs (like weapons, in facts it nerfs my plasma fire damage which are still very rare during faw) but it's possible the omega amp procs more often if it's a different mechanism (i think this one is per hit but not sure).
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,598
# 13
11-10-2013, 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
the number of on shot procs FAW creates inst a bug. its the fact that every beam array fires 10 shots per cycle.
If you parse a Beam using FAW and say DEM...you'll get 5 Beam hits and 10 DEM hits. No, each DEM hit is not equal (it's not usually double DEM - can be with Crits, thus more complaints with Scimitars than Fed FAW boats). But that's not 10 Beam hits...unless one is counting a Beam hit that does 0 damage (as in it's a visual thing) and does not register otherwise. Each Beam should fire 5 times, thus there should be the opportunity for 5 procs/hits. It shouldn't increase the number of procs - they should still be limited to any cycle or per pulse limitation that exists otherwise.

edit: Wonder if it's tied to how FAW targets, randomly selecting the target (hit) and shooting at the target (hit)...

Last edited by virusdancer; 11-10-2013 at 06:19 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,598
# 14
11-10-2013, 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by this1isavailable View Post
I'm not sure it improves cycle based procs (like weapons, in facts it nerfs my plasma fire damage which are still very rare during faw) but it's possible the omega amp procs more often if it's a different mechanism (i think this one is per hit but not sure).
Wonder if that's a case of a "second - weaker" proc overwriting the main proc with the PDoTs...

Proc stacking/overwriting changed back in...er...meh, can't remember the month - but the patch was on the 25th, lol. I'd go look, but the forums are all dorked...annoying.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,179
# 15
11-11-2013, 02:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
I'm not claiming its a bug... however Bort at one point went out of his way to make it clear that rapid fire did not improve your chance to proc... seems faw in fact gives you twice the chance to proc... which includes weapon procs... meaning double the elachi hits ect.

I am not saying it isn't intended... I have simply never seen a dev jump on any of these threads and claim it was. When that happens my current leave of absence to swing a lightsaber for awhile may just become more permanent. I would hate to really think the Cryptic guys are that unintelligent.
your confusing procs per cycle things and procs per shot things. like the valdor console, borg 2 part, placates, thats all per hit, not per cycle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
If you parse a Beam using FAW and say DEM...you'll get 5 Beam hits and 10 DEM hits. No, each DEM hit is not equal (it's not usually double DEM - can be with Crits, thus more complaints with Scimitars than Fed FAW boats). But that's not 10 Beam hits...unless one is counting a Beam hit that does 0 damage (as in it's a visual thing) and does not register otherwise. Each Beam should fire 5 times, thus there should be the opportunity for 5 procs/hits. It shouldn't increase the number of procs - they should still be limited to any cycle or per pulse limitation that exists otherwise.

edit: Wonder if it's tied to how FAW targets, randomly selecting the target (hit) and shooting at the target (hit)...
keep in mind that there has to be a second target to hit for FAW to fire that other 5 shots per cycle. im not sure what DEM would do then. maybe that second DEM is for the second shot that was supposed to get fired, but didn't have anything to hit.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,276
# 16
11-11-2013, 03:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
your confusing procs per cycle things and procs per shot things. like the valdor console, borg 2 part, placates, thats all per hit, not per cycle.
Regardless of what ever symantics we want to use... bottom line is... with rapid fire or scatter volley I get the exact same amount of procs as with out those skills. I don't all of a sudden end up with a 5 stack of a 2.5% chance proc.

Clearly one of three possible options are happening.

1) This is intended... in which case the people to whom those intentions belong are Morons. Caps on the "M" intended.

2) It is indeed not intended to work that way... and the fact it has yet to be changed leads me to believe there should likely be a cap somewhere in this line as well referencing someone.

3) I am the one somehow at fault... by being the most lucky person ever to play STO... cause every time I use faw my RNG seems to double.

What ever it is that is happening with faw... intended or not its game breaking imo. Frankly I been swinging a light saber for a almost a week now instead of treking and I'm starting to not miss it much.

PS I get that faw is adding a 5th hit to the 4 hit beam cycle... but all 4 hits of a beam cycle don't get there own proc roles... So I guess I am saying. Why exactly is the extra 5th hit with faw getting its own proc roll ? The engine doesn't act that way with a skill like rapid fire... not that I think it should.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.

Last edited by antoniosalieri; 11-11-2013 at 03:05 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,265
# 17
11-11-2013, 05:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
FAW is pretty close to an exploit in my view... that is until a dev comes around and dells me they fully intended FAW to get double the proc rate.
isnt the proc half strength under faw though? i remember testing a while back and a few of the procs where half strength when delivered by faw.
Cryptic.
Figure out and address the players path of least resistance to reward. this one thing is THE consistent factor undermining all your efforts. be that crafting, raids or starbase projects.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,598
# 18
11-11-2013, 06:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
keep in mind that there has to be a second target to hit for FAW to fire that other 5 shots per cycle. im not sure what DEM would do then. maybe that second DEM is for the second shot that was supposed to get fired, but didn't have anything to hit.
Hrmm, it was just a case of testing it in a 1v1...5 FAW shots and 10 DEM hits (again, not equal damage)...

Let me go shoot at some Cardassians in Empire Defense. Gave me two JHAS at the start, but as you can see in the log - they were nice to separate them out for me.

307 - Cardom DEM Hit
306 - Cardom_2 DEM Hit

13:11:11:07:40:23.6::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,74.2059,0
13:11:11:07:40:23.6::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,70.8643,0
13:11:11:07:40:23.7::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Shield,,-667.582,-776.258
13:11:11:07:40:23.7::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Tetryon,,86.2509,862.509

13:11:11:07:40:23.7::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,178.611,0
13:11:11:07:40:23.7::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Shield,,-689.852,-802.153
13:11:11:07:40:23.7::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Tetryon,,89.1282,891.282

13:11:11:07:40:23.7::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,151.166,0


13:11:11:07:40:24.4::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,78.7756,0
13:11:11:07:40:24.4::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,62.623,0
13:11:11:07:40:24.5::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Shield,,-644.008,-743.419
13:11:11:07:40:24.5::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Tetryon,,82.6022,826.021

13:11:11:07:40:24.5::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,186.928,0
13:11:11:07:40:24.5::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Shield,,-660.89,-762.907
13:11:11:07:40:24.5::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Tetryon,,84.7675,847.674

13:11:11:07:40:24.5::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,190.689,0


13:11:11:07:40:25.2::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,86.1586,0
13:11:11:07:40:25.2::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,60.4524,0
13:11:11:07:40:25.3::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Shield,,-602.85,-695.907
13:11:11:07:40:25.3::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Tetryon,,77.3231,773.23

13:11:11:07:40:25.3::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,153.745,0
13:11:11:07:40:25.3::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Shield,,-610.161,-704.347
13:11:11:07:40:25.3::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Tetryon,,78.2607,782.607

13:11:11:07:40:25.3::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,139.734,0


13:11:11:07:40:26.0::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,70.2813,0
13:11:11:07:40:26.0::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,92.1962,0
13:11:11:07:40:26.2::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Shield,,-614.556,-709.421
13:11:11:07:40:26.2::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Tetryon,,78.8245,788.245

13:11:11:07:40:26.2::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,157.416,0
13:11:11:07:40:26.2::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Shield,,-721.38,-832.734
13:11:11:07:40:26.2::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Tetryon,,92.5261,925.26

13:11:11:07:40:26.2::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,153.017,0


13:11:11:07:40:26.9::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,60.3914,0
13:11:11:07:40:26.9::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,72.8974,0
13:11:11:07:40:27.0::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Shield,,-645.961,-745.673
13:11:11:07:40:27.0::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Tetryon,,82.8527,828.526

13:11:11:07:40:27.0::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,173.527,0
13:11:11:07:40:27.0::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Shield,,-649.856,-750.169
13:11:11:07:40:27.0::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,189.483,0
13:11:11:07:40:27.0::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Tetryon,,83.3522,833.521


13:11:11:07:40:29.1::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,87.5758,0
13:11:11:07:40:29.1::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,79.7527,0
13:11:11:07:40:29.2::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Shield,,-630.252,-727.539
13:11:11:07:40:29.2::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Tetryon,,80.8378,808.377

13:11:11:07:40:29.2::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[306 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom_2],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,172.674,0
13:11:11:07:40:29.2::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Shield,,-641.403,-740.411
13:11:11:07:40:29.2::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Tetryon Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Etjh5y,Tetryon,,82.2679,822.679

13:11:11:07:40:29.2::Prophet,P[3380729@4209758 Prophet@virusdancer],,*,Jem'Hadar Attack Ship,C[307 Space_Dominion_Frigate_Cardom],Directed Energy Modulation II,Pn.Hyuj8c,Tetryon,,205.685,0

I clipped it at six pairs of shots...got tired of color coding it and it was obvious that what I had wondered earlier was the case. I tested it a couple more times and each time the first two recorded entries were DEM hits. I should have just looked at the timestamps, but I hadn't had enough caffeine yet...heh.

We know that FAW autotargets. That autotargeting is treated as a pulse. The first two hits of each pair of shots is thus a pair of DEM hits as the targets are selected. They happen about 0.1-0.2s before the actual hits (the shield, hull, and actual DEM hits).

So since the autotargeting/target selection is treated as a pulse for DEM - would it not also be treated as such for any proc chances?

Course, that gets into a complicated discussion on what different folks feel happens with regard to procs. Proc per shot, proc per cycle, proc per shot limited to a single proc per cycle, etc, etc, etc. Since the combat log doesn't write them (heh, could be painful considering I was using R-Tets and Tet Glider - could you imagine?); it's not something that's easily verified in the least.

Say we go with the proc per shot, eh? Vs. a single target (vs. two targets, it would be for each of them - against more than two, it gets muddied depending on how many shots hit each target).

2.5% chance per shot in a 4/5 cycle, gives us an overall probability of ~9.63% of having a proc during that cycle.

Going to a 5/5 cycle would give us an overall probability of ~11.89%.

But if it is rolling for procs on the targeting pulses, we're looking at a 10/5 cycle with an overall probability of ~22.37%.

Keep in mind the difference here when I say chance and overall probability. There's still only a 2.5% chance per shot, but because of the number of shots there's an overall probability that one of those shots will hit that 2.5%...

But again, that's where some feedback from the devs (or if somebody's got a link to where they've clarified it) on if procs are per shot, per cycle, per shot per cycle, etc, etc, etc.

DEM shows us that it's doing damage on the autotargeting/target selection pulses...are those pulses also increasing the probability (not quite doubling it) of landing the proc as well? And depending on the particular proc (since they have various mechanics) is it also allowing for multiple procs....?

edit: The only thing I found was Bort confirming the SNB DOFFs could only proc once per cycle - with a math example that suggested a single roll per cycle for the DOFF. Meh, anybody seen anything about weapon procs out there from a dev? It's probably in the Archived stuff if it is...meaning it would be impossible to tell a dev post unless it was quoted from a player post.

edit2: Even this older post ( http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...&postcount=242 ) refers to the proc limit per cycle but doesn't explicitly state how the proc rolls are handled...meh. It's one of those things, do you always notice the proc on the first shot of a cycle...or...in testing, have you noticed a limit of one proc per cycle that happens on different shots, eh?

edit3: Something else to consider then, would be Tet Glider - it's not a proc - it's a pulse thing. So even though the log won't show it, is it doing the same thing that DEM's doing? Is Tet Glider applying on the autotargeting/target selection pulses?

Last edited by virusdancer; 11-11-2013 at 07:30 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 160
# 19
11-11-2013, 11:19 AM
This is all great info but my build doesn't do 30-40k DPS. My faw cruiser still does the same DPS it did 6 months ago 15-20k but now its an exploit. Don't get me wrong I like being called a cheater...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 118
# 20
11-11-2013, 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieeatter View Post
This is all great info but my build doesn't do 30-40k DPS. My faw cruiser still does the same DPS it did 6 months ago 15-20k but now its an exploit. Don't get me wrong I like being called a cheater...
Yeah and your ego likes getting called something else to compensate for something missing in real life! Your avatar says it all. Dreaming of something you will never have in real life! LOL
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:15 AM.