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Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 11
11-14-2013, 03:17 PM
We The People

Another paradigm to think about is an association of small fleets.

The same mechanisms that would cause large fleets to create satellite fleets could also be applied to leverage the collective power of many smaller ones.

How to do that? Well, it's not an easy problem.

First, Cryptic would probably have to cap the total number of members in each association. Thus mega-fleets would benefit little or not at all. Otherwise, they're just going to create a series of satellite fleets and potentially abuse the system.

Second, a collection of individual fleets is still made up of individual fleets with their own logistics to consider. It doesn't help to have a dozen fleets pooling resources if those fleets can't agree on where those resources ought to go.

What could happen is a system where all of the associated fleets vote on opening a certain project to contributions from all of the members. So you'd be able to contribute to any of the open projects for your own fleet, plus one other 'elected' project that benefits another fleet. By democratic process, resources would be pooled and not spread too thin.

The downside is that a multi-fleet voting system like this would be complex and there might not be (probably isn't) a lot of incentive for Cryptic to create it unless the tech could be leveraged in other ways.

Does anybody have any brilliant ideas about how a Fleet Collective might work?
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# 12
11-14-2013, 03:40 PM

Assuming that things like fleet associations and dual/associate memberships aren't feasible, what else could work?

Well, Cryptic really seems to like their "lotto" boxes, so what about a kind of lottery?

The basic idea is that players could contribute either marks or credits to a 'pot' on a daily basis. At the end of the day, the system would randomly select 'winners' to receive portions of the 'pot' and the players who got a portion could withdraw it as either marks or credits, with the proper conversion applied.

The big downside here is, you win some you lose some... and no guarantees. Some individuals would benefit, but probably most wouldn't. Lucky fleets could get a huge windfall, though.

This is really not my best idea, folks, but I'm throwing it out there.

Free Market

Basically, through some mechanism, allowing any individual to contribute to any project from any fleet that has been opened up for outside contributions.

Or, as suggested, to create some kind of a Fleet Exchange where players can trade resources needed to provision projects or to buy gear. (Marks for Credits, etc)

I think the exchange idea is too open to abuse, personally. And some would argue that Cryptic already has issues with Exchange systems without creating a new one.

Enabling players to freely choose to contribute to another fleet without actually joining it might be the secret sauce. And it could potentially benefit people who don't want to join a fleet in the first place.

What I'm not sure about is how that would disrupt Cryptic's fleet advancement model. Would it break it? Enable fleets of all sizes to complete projects too quickly?
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
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# 13
11-14-2013, 04:17 PM
Well the best solution I've come up with is for large fleets to have a sort of collaboration with smaller fleets. thus allowing players to switch back and forth. At present this has to be done in a rather awkward fashion, where you leave your fleet, get an invite to the other fleet, then join. It'd be quicker if you could setup a sort of standing invite that lets members go back and forth largely at will.

Future's idea in post 3 is another good one and might be easier to code.

I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.

Last edited by markhawkman; 11-14-2013 at 04:21 PM.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 14
11-15-2013, 02:40 AM
I had the thought when I proposed the Fleet Alliance system a year ago. To me, there are two possibilities:

1) The Alliance Window

All Large Fleets have to do is have a type of cooperation with a smaller fleet and they could trade donations, similar to the trade window. They donate as if they were donating to their own fleet's projects.

2) The Donation Drop-Off

Given that it's already happening, that some Large Fleets having mule fleets just to earn credits. So to prevent it being easier for them to "horde all da lewt". Perhaps a more fair approach is called for. Where players could literally donate their DOFFs, Fleet Marks, Dilithium, or Commodities to the STO system. Then the STO system unbiasly distributes those donations to smaller fleets.

The Large fleet players get their Fleet Credits, and Small Fleets can get their projects filled and move forward.

3) Scaling

The only other things that I could think of is if Cryptic modifies the system where Projects scale according to a fleet's size. While the numbers may look huge to a large fleet, if everyone donated, it wouldn't be so large. Like the Tier 3 2 Million Dilithum of the Fleet holdings, it's a mountain for small fleets, but for a large fleet of 150, thats about 2 day's worth of Dilithum to be donated.

4) Build it!

The last possibility is more of a game.......literally minecraft. We physically build our Starbase.
Join Date: Jul 2012
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# 15
11-15-2013, 05:05 AM
Well first of all, let's face reality. The ONLY thing large fleet members would want to give is fleet marks. At least, unless the other fleet paid something extra over the fleet credits generated. There are plenty of people around who don't want to give anything else even to their own fleet (and then whine about not being able to get credits).

Second, the best kind of "collaboration" fleet is one with empty projects to dump marks into. What's the best way to get one? Start your own, fill up the project slots, then disband it and repeat as needed. Why set up partnership with a real fleet that needs real resources and time to build, when you could just make up fake fleets as dumping grounds, then toss 'em when they're full?

On the other hand, if fleet "alliances" were to give back some benefit based on the development of the other fleet (to give incentive to actually build up the other fleet), the ideal would become an alliance between two large fleets. Again, why bother helping a small fleet to build to gain some bonus if you could just team up with another large fleet thats already built and get the bonus right away.

And scaling project cost by member count would be an absolutely horrible idea. I can already imagine fleets where you would get an invite when you log in, then leave the fleet or get kicked when logging out to keep the official roster low. Or when filling a major upgrade project, all but one person would leave then get invited in one at a time to contribute, for maximum savings.

About the only thing I can think of that could actually work with real players without being exploited is some kind of "help wanted" board. A place where needy fleets could post a "link" to a specific project resource item and other players could then contribute to that. This should include an EC price per unit of the poster's choice (paid from fleet bank or the poster's own wallet), given in addition to the fleet credits generated, to serve both as a logical way to sort the offers and to make it worthwhile to contribute resources other than marks. What's important here is that it's global and always available, not subject to asking for fleet alliances or something that would make it easier to just set up your own fleets as dumping grounds.

Last edited by warpangel; 11-15-2013 at 05:07 AM.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 90
# 16 re the big small issue
11-15-2013, 08:23 AM
as a fleet leader like Yourselves i understand exactly where your coming from these problems are not uncommon and continue to be on going problems with no real solution
when i started my fleet 2 years ago we also encountered these problems

Tier 1 - Tier 2 Projects would be filled so quick this was mainly due to the fact that at that time the projects needed only small amounts of commadites and Dil added to that the fleet was enthusiastic about leveling up the base and other holdings now that all sounds good but it was not long before fellow Fleet Members were complaining and rightly so that projects were already full before they got a chance to donate anything so we implemented a few systems to see if we could ensure members could donate and get there share of the fleet credits

System 1 - me and my co leaders decide we would adopt a squad system where we would say 3 squads each would assigned projects to fill say squad 1 miltrey 2 science etc then we would rotate after a month or so sadly that system lasted about a month before we realised it was not working so we abandoned it

System -2 we decide one of the co leaders would be in charge of the projects and would queue them when came on and when needed now for the First 2 Months this seemed to work and complaints about being unable to donate settled down unfortunatley in the 3 month things started to go wrong not enough projects were being queue at fast enough rate and no provisonal projects were being queued and of course the not being able to donate problem resurfaced

System - 3 on seeing that the second system was faulting we let let another co fleet leader take crack at it by that time we had the fleet mine and we were in the tier 3 - tier 4 stages the system we adopted was that we would concentrate on leveling up the mine for the discounts tom help out with the base and embassy by now as you can imagine the amount of commaddites and dil was getting considerbly higher so any discount would be a big help and we also made sure that there would be provisonal projects avalible everyday for members to donate and to date the projects have been filled regularly and there is always projects that need donation so there are no more complaints about being unable to donate now we come to the present Project has slowed in my fleet because of one problem dil we are now in the process of upgrading the base to tier 4 and doing the final tier 3 upgrade for the embassy unfortunaly the amount of dil need for all these upgrades is astronomical and at this time we have slowed to a crawl don't get me wrong the members doante what they can but also need it for there own use that being said your find the higher the amount of commadites needed the more chance you have to donate

as i said we have been around for 2 years and are just hitting tier 4 so these problems affect the older fleets as well as the new ones

thing is at the moment no small fleets will ever hit tier 5 because the amount of commodites needed is to great and with amount dil needed it nearly impossible to advance in a small fleet thats why i would say to anyone thinking of creating a fleet only do so if your in it for the long run other wise join a bigger advanced fleet
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# 17
11-15-2013, 11:39 AM
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
The Discount Dilemma

Take the Mine discounts, for example. Big fleets can get those easier and faster than a small fleet. But what's the effect? I can't crunch the numbers but it seems to me that any discount for marks, dil, commodities, or any other resource requirements means this:

Fewer inputs likely mean fewer fleet credits are generated as a result. Faster projects may mean fewer people get the opportunity to contribute (because they're filling quicker), and also guarantees that the fleet will run out of things to do faster.

Personally, I had liked the suggestion of a sliding scale that balanced reduced costs with increased cooldowns. It solves the issue of completing things too fast and the cheaper pricing being unfair to the large fleets. The problem with a sliding scale is as you pointed out, the reduction of inputs equals a reduction in fleet credit earned. Seems this is a somewhat of a no win though, as some folks have a hard time earning fleet credits in large fleets because projects get contributed to/completed so quickly with a lot of members in a fleet.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 364
# 18
11-15-2013, 12:10 PM
An easy way I can think of to help with this is a fleet reputation system that unlocks when your fleet gets a certain amount of people. Therefore, individuals could have reputation projects to turn dil and other stuff into fleet marks without having any competition to contribute.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 317
# 19
11-15-2013, 01:48 PM
I run a small fleet 'The Space Invaders' and when I saw another fleet holding I let out a big sigh.

The only way I see a way to help small fleets is the project requirements being scaled to fleet member size. So a say sub 100 member fleet it's projects woud be 2/3 of what they are now, a 100-300 it would be a 1/3 and above 300 would remain the same.
Now to stop people creating a small fleet maxing it out then inviting loads of members the fleet member levels would be projects, standard I.e. no cost sub 100, 100-300 would require x amount and finally if they want to expand to a large fleet 300+ members project would be a shed load of x to complete.

On a side note would like to see the mars yard map used for small fleets, the base seems so empty otherwise.

Just thought also limit the special dill only cosmetic projects to certain member levels. If you want the best looking you need the biggest, just a thought.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 20
11-15-2013, 07:52 PM
The only way I see fleet sponsorships working well and not being abused is if they're irrevocable. Make a T5 fleet sponsoring a smaller fleet a semi-permanent choice, with the relationship terminated only when the smaller fleet itself hits T5.

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