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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
01-31-2010, 03:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delazure View Post
Oh but yes they will, and they will flame those who dare complain as well
I can pretty much guarantee no one will get a free day for any downtime via Head Start... As for complaining about long server down times (Days on end) I am not sure what in the hell good it would do me sense I have life time...

But yes after Feb 2nd I would expect Cryptic to reimburse you for lengthy downtime's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heimskringla View Post
Actually, no. Headstart is not free. My $59.95 was deducted from my balance on 1/13/10. It posted to my statement on 01/14/10. Because it's a digital purchase, I don't have the option of requesting a refund--not that I intend to. Similarly, my lifetime subscription has already cleared and I've been billed for it.

Secondly, I'm not the one crying. If you want to interpret me saying "Hey, if they want to throw in a perlk for the downtime, they may as well give lifetimers something they'll benefit from" as crying, go troll somewhere else.
I paid the same time you did... and I still say this is a Free perk as was Open Beta... If you think it wasnt free then the game should be cheaper on Feb 2nd no?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
01-31-2010, 03:26 AM
The level of service we are experiencing now is indicative of what we can expect in February when this service goes live. This thread is about whether Cryptic will make some kind of a commitment to compensate their customers if things continue to go wrong in February.

Perhaps the title of the thread is badly worded, and if the title is all people read (as is often the case on forums) then I can see why they would be confused about what the thread is really about. Although there are many valid concerns related to head start, these are not the point originally raised.

However, if I were a troll or felt an overwhelming and irrational desire to protect Cryptic from hearing constructive criticism, I would certainly latch on to every strawman argument I could to derail the discussion. Heaven forbid an actual spokesperson for the company should ever have to do this for themselves.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
01-31-2010, 03:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiwawa
To be clear (for the benefit of flamers and trolls): I think the game is fun. I want to play the game more. However simple observation of uptime over the last 48 hours indicates that there are still issues with server uptime.

Many people work for a living (unbelievable I know) and when they get home after a hard 9-6 or when have free time at the weekend (even more unbelievable if they have kids) they expect to have access to the service they're paying for. During open beta we all (well, most of us) made allowances for downtime, because we knew things weren't finished and playing was a special (free) privilege. However, its not beta or free anymore.

It isn't realistic to expect all the problems to be fixed, but I'm thinking the only thing that will convince people like me not to cancel their pre-orders (on an unprecedented scale) is a promise from Cryptic that downtime during February will be compensated in some way. 1 day of free game time for every 12 hours of accumulated downtime for example.

If you agree with my sentiments then add your /signed here and maybe someone at Cryptic will take note. Alternatively set your phasers to barely literate flame and try and get me before I'm swept away by the inevitable stampede of forum trolls.
I have never known a company not compensate for problems, however I find these threads annoying in the extreme as there is always some muppet who pipes up.. the game hasnt even gone live yet (prestart is a bonus, not a guarantee) and yet here we are already. WoW forums are rife with idiots like this, when Blizzard always give game time for major unplanned failures that go on for extereme periods..

However, on a more serious note. The EULA dose not promise 24/7 game time, and the EULA is the same for all of us who play. It does not take where or when you play into account.

and where the hell does your ridiculous 1 day for 12 hours downtime come from?

If you are not happy, do NOT enter your retail key on 2/2/10 and your game time will not start, come back in a few months when the teething troubles are gone.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
01-31-2010, 03:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebulun
Unfortunately if you consider the amount of down time compared to the amount you're paying, it's ridiculously small.

Let's say you pay $15/month and the servers go down for one full day.

Cryptic would re-imburse you $0.50
I appreciate your method of calculation but your entitled to more.

Under English Law at least, you don't get a pro-rate refund of what you paid (because that places you back in the position you would have been had you not agreed to buy the service). You are compensated for your loss of enjoyment (which puts you in the position you would have been had the Developers provided the service you paid for).

So for example, you were going to play STO. Its down for 2 hours. Instead you go to the cinema incurring a cost you would not have incurred. Your entitled to any expenses you incur in entertaining yourself by alternative means. You also don't have to actually find alternative enterainment. Your entitled to a reasonable sum reflecting that period. So a good comparison would be the cinema or some other such activity. You're roughly looking at $10 per hour.

The rub however, is the Developers wont pay it, and no-one will enforce their rights.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
01-31-2010, 03:41 AM
If you are worried about ganme launch downtime, please do not enter your retail key on 2/2/10. Just dont play for a few months.

Quite simple really.

I honestly dont think we will miss any player who is already moaning about if will they get compensation. I know I wont.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
01-31-2010, 03:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akril View Post
I appreciate your method of calculation but your entitled to more.

Under English Law at least, you don't get a pro-rate refund of what you paid (because that places you back in the position you would have been had you not agreed to buy the service). You are compensated for your loss of enjoyment (which puts you in the position you would have been had the Developers provided the service you paid for).

So for example, you were going to play STO. Its down for 2 hours. Instead you go to the cinema incurring a cost you would not have incurred. Your entitled to any expenses you incur in entertaining yourself by alternative means. You also don't have to actually find alternative enterainment. Your entitled to a reasonable sum reflecting that period. So a good comparison would be the cinema or some other such activity. You're roughly looking at $10 per hour.

The rub however, is the Developers wont pay it, and no-one will enforce their rights.
As a Uk resident, I am getting very embaressed by all the self righteous, self inflated, pompus English people throwing UK / English law around like the Americans are in awe of us and our way of life. I am now in double figures in less than half a day with people like this who make me squirm with embaressment.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
01-31-2010, 03:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Metal View Post
I paid the same time you did... and I still say this is a Free perk as was Open Beta... If you think it wasnt free then the game should be cheaper on Feb 2nd no?
No, simple commercial law.

A company sells in January a 600g bag of crisps for 0,99$, when you buy the bag before 2nd Feb.
After 2nd Feb the regular 500g bag of crisps will cost 0,99$ in all stores.

Wouldn't you complain and demand your money back, if you had bought a 600g bag in January, but you find out that your bag has only 500g?
What would you say, when the manufactuerer argues that the extra 100g where only a free perk, and from 2 Feb you will receive anyway only 500g?

So back to commercial law:
You bought a product for money which had the following assured properties:
* a headstart
* the game Star Trek Online
* some extra goodies.
For this properties you had to pay 60$. So the headstart is part of the 60$, regardless of whether the product will cost the same sometimes later without that property.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
01-31-2010, 03:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akril View Post
I appreciate your method of calculation but your entitled to more.

Under English Law at least, you don't get a pro-rate refund of what you paid (because that places you back in the position you would have been had you not agreed to buy the service). You are compensated for your loss of enjoyment (which puts you in the position you would have been had the Developers provided the service you paid for).

So for example, you were going to play STO. Its down for 2 hours. Instead you go to the cinema incurring a cost you would not have incurred. Your entitled to any expenses you incur in entertaining yourself by alternative means. You also don't have to actually find alternative enterainment. Your entitled to a reasonable sum reflecting that period. So a good comparison would be the cinema or some other such activity. You're roughly looking at $10 per hour.

The rub however, is the Developers wont pay it, and no-one will enforce their rights.
That is so damn stupid... You can also play a game you already have installed... Why in the hell is it the responsibility of the Game maker to pay for your movie cost because you couldn't play a game for 2 hrs?

If that was ever enforced I dont think you would see any online games over their...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
01-31-2010, 03:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander View Post
No, simple commercial law.

A company sells in January a 600g bag of crisps for 0,99$, when you buy the bag before 2nd Feb.
After 2nd Feb the regular 500g bag of crisps will cost 0,99$ in all stores.

Wouldn't you complain and demand your money back, if you had bought a 600g bag in January, but you find out that your bag has only 500g?
What would you say, when the manufactuerer argues that the extra 100g where only a free perk, and from 2 Feb you will receive anyway only 500g?

So back to commercial law:
You bought a product for money which had the following assured properties:
* a headstart
* the game Star Trek Online
* some extra goodies.
For this properties you had to pay 60$. So the headstart is part of the 60$, regardless of whether the product will cost the same sometimes later without that property.
Did head start start on time? Yes it did, did they say head start would last a full 96 hrs? No

So I guessed they have upheld there end of the deal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
01-31-2010, 03:51 AM
Cryptic will compensate you by hitting you across the face with a freshly caught Haddock
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