Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Crash to desk.
02-13-2010, 06:56 PM
No, not desktop, desk. As in the computer completely shuts off. Summarizing it shortly, I'm plugging along, usually on a ground mission although it seems to have happened once in space, when the computer goes dead with no warning. It can be in the middle of combat, or just while running around. This is a bit frustrating because I just rebuilt my computer, and it's plowed through Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age with no issues whatsoever.

At first I was assuming this was the infamous (and controversial) heat issue, but after running Gpu-z, my temps never get up above 72. I have an idea about why this might be happening, but I figured I'd throw it to the crowd while I was waiting around for the solution to show up.

Vital stats:
Windows XP (Yeah, I know, but if I update to Windows 7, I have to reinstall everything)
i5 Quad Core 2.66 ghz
Geforce 9800 GT (eVGA)
8 Gb SDRAM DDR3
Nothing overclocked at all, and the issue seems to be if not completely unrelated to STO's graphic settings, then only delayed by lowering them.

Now, here's what I think is happening: when I rebuilt the computer, I didn't want to spend to replace every single component. I've got a few old parts in there like the hard drive, DVD player and.....the power supply. It's a Rosewill 500 Watt. Quite frankly, I was worried that the thing was underpowered and just wasn't going to start when I plugged it in, but hadn't thought anything of it since I got everything running properly. However, looking back through the system requirements for my video card, I'm finding that they recommend a 26 amp power supply on the 12 volt. I don't know much about power supplies or voltages in general, but my current PS only seems to be supplying 16 amps on the +12V, and the most it supplies period is 22A on the +3.3V. Needless to say, I've ordered a more robust power supply.

But the question remains, could this be causing my current problems, and moreso, could it be causing a more generalized performance slowdown? This issue has made me realize that what I thought was a lag problem actually seems to be a slowdown problem, and looking at the individual components, that shouldn't be happening with this game, especially at the lower performance settings. I'm beginning to wonder if my rig has actually been slow in comparison to similar machines, and I just haven't noticed it because I hadn't upgraded in three years.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-14-2010, 03:10 AM
Run furmark, and memtest. See if they flag up any issues at all.

Furmark tests your GPU. Memtest tests your Ram.


regarding your PSU, run http://www.almico.com/speedfan440.exe

At the bottom of speedfan's window, note the number next to +12v. and let us know what it is. It's unlikely to be your PSU, as im thinking its more of a memory issue, but if you are worried about the amount of power your PSU is putting out to your system, this is one surefire way to check.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-14-2010, 01:16 PM
So I have a kind of embarrassing solution. My GPU temperature was fine, but as soon as I ran Speedfan, I realized my core CPU temperatures were running at right under the maximum temp. I just hadn't even considered that it might be the CPU since my case cools pretty well. The problem turned out to be twofold. One, the front case fan cord had either become dislodged or never been plugged in in the first place. Two, a stray power cable had never been tied up and had strayed directly into the blades of the rear case fan, where it lodged in the blades. So Ithe only cooling involved in my case involved the CPU fan and maybe the built in power supply fan. Since hooking everything up properly, temperatures have dropped 30 degrees ambient.

I'm going to proceed with the PS upgrade anyways (The +12V number is 11.54 nonetheless), but I think I've fixed the problem. Thanks for giving me the tools to figure it out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-15-2010, 10:11 AM
I have this problem along with thousands of other STO users who own ATI cards. I have tried older ATI drivers. I have had all my computer parts tested and they are all fine. Tried a huge number of other online games and single player games such as Crysis and no problems. Only this game causes my computer to shut entirely down. I have the newest Realtek audio drivers, Directx Feb release, etc as suggested by Cryptic. The only way I can get in game is to start the game in "safe mode". This is not acceptable. It looks like a old 1990's game now. And yes I have tried replacement power supplies, video cards, ram, etc. It is NOT a hardware problem, nor is it a ATI driver problem. It is a coding problem. Please fix this so I and many many other people can play the game like normal people. I sure would appreciate it. Thank you. BTW, I also tried deleting the game, reinstalling it from the DVD and downloading the updates. No effect. And the problem has gotten progressively worse with each patch since Feb 2nd.

MSI785GTM-E45 motherboard
AMD Phenom II 805 CPU
4gb Kinston HyperX PC1066 gaming ram
Seagate 160gb SATA II drives in raid array
ATI 5850 1gb PCI-E video card
500watt Antec Smart 2.0 Power Supply (dual rail)
22" LG W2252TQ monitor
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-15-2010, 06:20 PM
Further update: While actually turning on my fans has really dropped the temperature a good deal, the CPU is still running hot. I've ordered a replacement "heat-pipe" style fan, and I'm hoping that will bring it down to a reasonable temperature. I don't seem to be getting any hard crashes any more, although I'm reluctant to play for long periods of time until I fix up my system.

I'm in the odd and contradictory position of being grateful to STO for demonstrating the weaknesses in my system, and wondering why the load on the processors was so heavy as to demonstrate these weaknesses in the first place.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-16-2010, 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nov8tr
I have this problem along with thousands of other STO users who own ATI cards. I have tried older ATI drivers. I have had all my computer parts tested and they are all fine. Tried a huge number of other online games and single player games such as Crysis and no problems. Only this game causes my computer to shut entirely down. I have the newest Realtek audio drivers, Directx Feb release, etc as suggested by Cryptic. The only way I can get in game is to start the game in "safe mode". This is not acceptable. It looks like a old 1990's game now. And yes I have tried replacement power supplies, video cards, ram, etc. It is NOT a hardware problem, nor is it a ATI driver problem. It is a coding problem. Please fix this so I and many many other people can play the game like normal people. I sure would appreciate it. Thank you. BTW, I also tried deleting the game, reinstalling it from the DVD and downloading the updates. No effect. And the problem has gotten progressively worse with each patch since Feb 2nd.

MSI785GTM-E45 motherboard
AMD Phenom II 805 CPU
4gb Kinston HyperX PC1066 gaming ram
Seagate 160gb SATA II drives in raid array
ATI 5850 1gb PCI-E video card
500watt Antec Smart 2.0 Power Supply (dual rail)
22" LG W2252TQ monitor
You mean a small handful of players. Not thousands.

And go to troubleshooting in video options Enable max fps to aroudn 40-50 and enable perframesleep.

Also, go into your hardware gpu options and turn that fan up. BY default it is set to run at a very low rate. Set it to around 65-80% RPM and youll notice a coolling improvement. STO by default uses more resources thansingleplayer gaes such as crysis (ppl STILL try to base their system on those specs??), or MMO's such as wow, which could run on a 486DX.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-16-2010, 06:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedgp123 View Post
You mean a small handful of players. Not thousands.

And go to troubleshooting in video options Enable max fps to aroudn 40-50 and enable perframesleep.

Also, go into your hardware gpu options and turn that fan up. BY default it is set to run at a very low rate. Set it to around 65-80% RPM and youll notice a coolling improvement. STO by default uses more resources thansingleplayer gaes such as crysis (ppl STILL try to base their system on those specs??), or MMO's such as wow, which could run on a 486DX.

Yea with an I5 proc, coupled together with a mid range GPU, it will bottleneck and force or pressure on the CPU, add to that that an I5 generates a ton of heat, and it makes you wonder why they dont come with a good heatsink and fan.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-16-2010, 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedgp123 View Post
MMO's such as wow, which could run on a 486DX.
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaggeration applies here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-16-2010, 09:58 AM
I have a Zalman cooler on the CPU and I run the ATI 5850 with the fan run at 80%. And my case has 3 fans in it running. And no I said exactly what I meant, thousands, NOT a handful. I have spent days searching all over the web at tech sites, gaming sites and talking to Cryptic itself on the phone. There are thousands of people having this problem. But remember how many hundreds of thousands are playing .And yes this does not affect all the people with the same equipment. Just like most problems with anything computer related does not affect all users. But for those of us who are being affected it is a problem. And in some cases a very serious one. BTW a 5850 is not a midrange video card, it is extreme high end. And yes most of us are aware by now of the framerate tricks in the troubleshooting section of video options. Almost everyone knows about dynamic lighting and postprocessing options as well. I have also replaced the PSU with a Thermaltake TR2 600watt PSU to overcompensate for the power draw this game is currently causing. And the phenom running at 3.0gHz with 6mb of L3 cache is not a bottleneck either. Nor is the 4gb of 1066 HyperX gaming ram.

Fly safe and sleep well.

Oh just thought I'd mention, CRYPTIC admits they have a coding problem with ATI video cards. So people are not just making this up or exaggerating. The problem is very real and they are working on it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-18-2010, 09:25 PM
New heatsink/fan seems to have fixed the problem. Core temps are down 60 (!!!) degrees celsius. Maybe the more powerful and more efficient power supply helped, but I think it's mostly the fan.

Incidentally, I've got to plug my new heatsink and fan:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835186134

If you're having issues wtih CPU heat and have the right socket, I can't recommend this highly enough. I'm still absolutely floored by that 60 degree drop.
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