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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 101
01-31-2010, 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monthar
The only differnces between a T2 BoP and a T2 Escort is the BoP has a battle cloak, LESS armor, LESS Shields, better turn rate, ONE LESS BOff station and the 3 BOff stations are universal. In other words, the BoP squishier than the Federation Escorts with less BOff powers for that battle cloak and better turn rate.

Comparing the T1 BoP to Escorts is like comparing apples to a void since there is only 1 type of ship in T1 for both sides. An Escort class for the Klingons and a Light Cruiser class for the Federation. Oh and you can put cannons on that Lt Cruiser, or at least you could in OB, I haven't tried since head-start started.
You still can mount cannons on the Light Cruiser/Miranda.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 102
01-31-2010, 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azma
SO how does that apply to someone like myself, who has been in CB and OB, saying there is an issue with the BoP in particular?
It likely means you haven't been spending time playing the Klingon side.

You say the BoP should be exactly like your escorts at T2 but this is incorrect, first it is more "squishy" and secondly it is not an escort. The raptor is the Klink escort, at T2 it has less hull and shields than a T2 Fed escort, but it's role is escort nonetheless. The BoP at all levels is a fragile jack of all trades. It can be beefed up because of the universal BO slots, but it still has less hull and less shields.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 103
01-31-2010, 04:25 PM
Everything about the bird of prey is situational. It's a scalpel, and the proper application requires a surgeon's hands.

I will happily agree that the ability to cloak is an unfair advantage, when applied right. So is the federation's excellent access to gear and tougher ships.

So long as kdf can keep the fight winnable through surprise, the feds are losing. That is our whole game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 104
01-31-2010, 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrangian View Post
It likely means you haven't been spending time playing the Klingon side.

You say the BoP should be exactly like your escorts at T2 but this is incorrect, first it is more "squishy" and secondly it is not an escort. The raptor is the Klink escort, at T2 it has less hull and shields than a T2 Fed escort, but it's role is escort nonetheless. The BoP at all levels is a fragile jack of all trades. It can be beefed up because of the universal BO slots, but it still has less hull and less shields.
I spent the last few weeks of beta in nothing but the Kling side. Here's the real question, perhaps this is why the BoP is so powerful. How many BoP pilots do you see putting nothing but cannons on the front slots? I can honestly say I havent seen more than 2 BoP actually using torps. Perhaps the issue is cannon power. Survivability is fine but the BoP has the best of every aspect of all of the ships. On the Fed side I have a Eng/Cruiser. I hardly ever use torps, except plasma. You're better off putting a turret or a bank in that slot. Perhaps torps are the issue. I drop shields and hull in seconds with my Kling. As a Fed my shield and hull get eaten in less than 3 seconds when I get alpha'd. For a ship that can take a beating like the BoP, they dish it out more.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 105
01-31-2010, 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azma
. For a ship that can take a beating like the BoP, they dish it out more.
Bird of Prey is the most fragile ship in the game. Why do you think it can take a beating?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 106
01-31-2010, 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azma
I spent the last few weeks of beta in nothing but the Kling side. Here's the real question, perhaps this is why the BoP is so powerful. How many BoP pilots do you see putting nothing but cannons on the front slots? I can honestly say I havent seen more than 2 BoP actually using torps. Perhaps the issue is cannon power. Survivability is fine but the BoP has the best of every aspect of all of the ships. On the Fed side I have a Eng/Cruiser. I hardly ever use torps, except plasma. You're better off putting a turret or a bank in that slot. Perhaps torps are the issue. I drop shields and hull in seconds with my Kling. As a Fed my shield and hull get eaten in less than 3 seconds when I get alpha'd. For a ship that can take a beating like the BoP, they dish it out more.
Anyone who puts nothing but cannons on their BoP is not producing a survivor build, they are building a glass cannon. If they get out positioned by Feds they are dead due to the limited firing arc of the cannons. Are they going to shred through shields? You bet, but they are not going to survive a focus firing match.

You keep saying that the BoP can take a beating. When we get the servers back up I will get the hull info from my T1 and T2 BoP's and you'll see how low they are. I don't have a T2 Fed ship, so I can't post those, but in the Archive I had all the T3 ships for both sides and I think the K't'inga was the only ship with better Hull than its Fed counterpart.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 107
01-31-2010, 04:32 PM
Fail piloting is fail piloting. Science Team I, Emergency Power to Shields 1, Rotate Shield Frequency, Reverse Shield Polarity, Engineering Team 1, and Transfer Shield Strength. These are the tools being used to keep BoP's alive. Federation have access to these skills too.

You scream about Klingons being overpowered when all they have are escorts in the first 2 tiers. You scream about BoP being somewhat unique when they are designed that way. They are WEAKER than ESCORTS. You scream about cannons being mounted when your ships can equip them too.

And if your Escorts are to stupid to equip the proper BO's to stay alive then they deserve to die. Your dps is not going to kill the enemy. Focused dps is. Klingons are winning due to teamwork and understanding the synergy of the BO powers needed for OUR FRAIL, WEAK SHIPS TO SURVIVE.

So stop trolling Azma, because at this point that's what you're doing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 108
01-31-2010, 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrangian View Post
Anyone who puts nothing but cannons on their BoP is not producing a survivor build, they are building a glass cannon. If they get out positioned by Feds they are dead due to the limited firing arc of the cannons. Are they going to shred through shields? You bet, but they are not going to survive a focus firing match.

You keep saying that the BoP can take a beating. When we get the servers back up I will get the hull info from my T1 and T2 BoP's and you'll see how low they are. I don't have a T2 Fed ship, so I can't post those, but in the Archive I had all the T3 ships for both sides and I think the K't'inga was the only ship with better Hull than its Fed counterpart.
The problem isnt the numbers, I am well aware of the hull and shield numbers. The problem is the fact that they take more damage than they should. There's something "abstract" going on behind the scenes with the BoP. The Raptor seems to be fine but the BoP is definitely off. You Kling players must know it, otherwise I wouldnt see 90% BoP pilots at Tier 2. With cloak, a glass cannon is what you want. There is no room for longevity if a BoP group can alpha Feds down, one at a time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 109
01-31-2010, 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azma
The problem isnt the numbers, I am well aware of the hull and shield numbers. The problem is the fact that they take more damage than they should. There's something "abstract" going on behind the scenes with the BoP. The Raptor seems to be fine but the BoP is definitely off. You Kling players must know it, otherwise I wouldnt see 90% BoP pilots at Tier 2. With cloak, a glass cannon is what you want. There is no room for longevity if a BoP group can alpha Feds down, one at a time.
I'm at the point right now where I'm going to have to say that you are operating on some fundamentally bad observations. I don't know where you think you got your information, but it's all in the numbers.

Bops die just like any other ship, there's no 'magic' that makes kdf uber.

This is the third or fourth time I've seen you post that BOPs have some magic damage resistance that doesn't show up in their stats chart.

Would you like to share the tests you have done to demonstrate this? If you are just trolling, then please stop.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 110
01-31-2010, 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiJiang
Fail piloting is fail piloting. Science Team I, Emergency Power to Shields 1, Rotate Shield Frequency, Reverse Shield Polarity, Engineering Team 1, and Transfer Shield Strength. These are the tools being used to keep BoP's alive. Federation have access to these skills too.

You scream about Klingons being overpowered when all they have are escorts in the first 2 tiers. You scream about BoP being somewhat unique when they are designed that way. They are WEAKER than ESCORTS. You scream about cannons being mounted when your ships can equip them too.

And if your Escorts are to stupid to equip the proper BO's to stay alive then they deserve to die. Your dps is not going to kill the enemy. Focused dps is. Klingons are winning due to teamwork and understanding the synergy of the BO powers needed for OUR FRAIL, WEAK SHIPS TO SURVIVE.

So stop trolling Azma, because at this point that's what you're doing.
Haha you must be frothing at the mouth. I was SCREAMING huh? Klings get cloak, Period. It should have to be a challenge to 1v1 with a fed ship. Try playing a Fed escort and see if you agree with your statements. Who says we don't use those BOs? I do, and it doesnt matter what happens. As a cruiser I go down last. Our escorts get killed immediately, then science, then me. At that point it doesn't matter what happens. Having cloak gives the Klings a huge advantage. Because some Kling players in beta were big crybabies they had to buff the ships to make them stand toe to toe without cloak as a factor. I don't care what the numbers say, the BoP needs a close review.
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