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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 121
01-31-2010, 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tain View Post
its 7.5% resist on the T1 BoP console, the T2 BoP should not be starting with any consoles. (thought you were comparing the starting BoP )
The T2 doesn't start with any consoles, but you can put that console T1 into your T2 BoP if you don't replace it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 122
01-31-2010, 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiJiang
The fact that in all the pvp matches our pre-made has done, the feds fail to use said abilities adequately as I mentioned in earlier posts. You really are just trolling at this point. Experienced Klingon beta players have told you exactly what we are doing to survive. Battle cloak is a 50/50 maybe you live or maybe you don't and is null and void if the feds are packing a science ship.

Even if it is you using the BO's I listed, and I'll believe that, what about your escorts since you fly a cruiser. I will say it again, you are only as good as the man next to you. Every single person on your team should be packing these abilities, not just you. It's how BoP's are surviving, not hidden space magic. It's teamwork and ventrillo, not overpowered ships.
Come fly Fed escorts a while. It doesnt matter what BOs you use. You can't get half of those BO skills at LtC as a Tac Officer in an escort. Most of what you are saying is circumstantial. The only teamwork BoPs need is to call targets/and alternates before they decloak and alpha strike.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 123
01-31-2010, 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azma
Simple. My normal hit on a raptor. 1 phaser array - 22. On a BoP its 17. Exact same phase, over multiple tests. These are the averages. Same weapon power 103. Doesn't take a math wiz to figure out there's a difference there. If saying there is a balance issue and making it known is trolling, Im moving underneath a bridge.
To many variables you have not listed. What were the pilots skills, what BO's did each have available. What shields and consoles did each have equiped. Did you fire your phaser back to back or did you let it reacharge before you fired.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 124
01-31-2010, 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tain View Post
its 7.5% resist on the T1 BoP console, the T2 BoP should not be starting with any consoles. (thought you were comparing the starting BoP )
Alright, so thats. 1.65 points of damage with the resistance on one of my phaser array strikes. Where is the other 3.35 points of damage coming off from?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 125
01-31-2010, 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azma
The problem isnt the numbers, I am well aware of the hull and shield numbers. The problem is the fact that they take more damage than they should. There's something "abstract" going on behind the scenes with the BoP. The Raptor seems to be fine but the BoP is definitely off. You Kling players must know it, otherwise I wouldnt see 90% BoP pilots at Tier 2. With cloak, a glass cannon is what you want. There is no room for longevity if a BoP group can alpha Feds down, one at a time.
You see 90% BoP pilots at T2 for several reasons.
1) Battle Cloak
2) It's the only ship that can use Lt Science and Lt Engineer BOff powers. Powers, I might add that give resistance bonuses and / or reduce damage to shields.

#2 is also why I captain a Science ship with my Federation captain in T2. The Ensign version of Hazard Emitters gives 22.9% resistance to ALL damage, I'm still trying to earn the Merits to see how the Lt version of this skill does.

Lt Engineer skill likely used - Reverse Shield Polarity or Engineering Teams II
Lt Science skill likely used - Science Teams II, Hazard Emitters II or Transfer Shield Strength

These skills either boost resistances or reduce shield damage while either repairing hull or recharging shields. To use any of these skills, especially those only available to Lt and higher BOffs, such as Reverse Shield Polarity, a Klingon MUST use a BoP in tier 2. Once we get the Tier 2 cruisers you'll see fewer BoPs as those wanting a Lt Engineer will then have a 2nd option. However, those wanting a Lt Science BOff will still be forced into a BoP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 126
01-31-2010, 04:53 PM
This anecdotal story is not proof.

If you want to prove it, screenshot it. Show the skills, show that the buffs are the same.

If you had shot ME after I decloaked, your phases would do about half damage - and not because of my ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 127
01-31-2010, 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrangian View Post
Then take away the amount of hull and shields that it gains from not having the cloak.
You forgot give klingons exact copies of cruisers and sci ships too.

T3 klingons get something other than 'squishy' and T3 is where escorts get access to RSP.

This thread started with half-assed speculation and it hasnt really gone anywhere up from there.

Azma keeps saying play it from the fed side! Yet they attempt to dismiss any benefits you get as a fed as marginal. Have you even gotten out of T1 yet? holy crap.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 128
01-31-2010, 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azma
Come fly Fed escorts a while. It doesnt matter what BOs you use. You can't get half of those BO skills at LtC as a Tac Officer in an escort. Most of what you are saying is circumstantial. The only teamwork BoPs need is to call targets/and alternates before they decloak and alpha strike.
And your lack of game understanding is displayed. Every T2 escort has the option to train their BO's in Science Team 1 and Engineering Team 1 (or Emergency Power to Shields). If you are a Tact or Sci Officer flying an escort it doesn't matter. With those abilities it provides ample support for you to have enough time to:

1. Get heals from teammate.
2. Evasive Maneuvers + speed away.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 129
01-31-2010, 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azma
Alright, so thats. 1.65 points of damage with the resistance on one of my phaser array strikes. Where is the other 3.35 points of damage coming off from?
If I had to guess I would say it comes from

the second resist console they can now fit (T2 bops get two console slots don't they?)
coupled with higher resist values on said consoles, and possibly higher innate resists on the MK III / IV shields.

As Meat said, to get anywhere with this you need to post screenshots, specifically the precise loadouts of the ships you were testing with. With what was the BoP equipped, what was its net resist value, what was the Raptor running? Which consoles did each have fit, what were the skill levels in the weapon/shield effecting captain skills, all of that contributes.


I am willing to entertain the possibility that there is some discrepancy between the listed values and whats actually occurring in game, even if I am not noticing the same. However, you are going to have to demonstrate this conclusively. You can't do that with anecdotes, we need to see the test ships, their fittings, and the relevant captain skills from both sides before we can even consider things.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 130
01-31-2010, 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tain View Post
If I had to guess I would say it comes from

the second resist console they can now fit (T2 bops get two console slots don't they?)
coupled with higher resist values on said consoles, and possibly higher innate resists on the MK III / IV shields.

As Meat said, to get anywhere with this you need to post screenshots, specifically the precise loadouts of the ships you were testing with. What was the BoP equipped, what was its net resist value, what was the Raptor running? Which consoles did each have fit, what were the kill levels in the weapon/shield effecting captain skills, all of that contributes.
T2 BoP just like the T2 Raptor, gets 2 Tactical consoles, 1 engineering and 1 science for equipment.

Those other missing damage points were most likely from a Lt Science or Lt Engineer repair/buff skill such as those I mentioned already.
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