Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,373
I think we all agree that the Avenger is a ship that divides people (to say it mildly) about its aesthetics. I know cryptics devs are already drowning in work, but that ship SERIOUSLY needs some alternative ship parts.


I also know that creating new ship parts or a complete new ship takes a big amount of time, so i would like to ask just for a alternative saucer for that ship.
Seriously i have tried to become accustomed to it, but i just can't stand the look of that ship. I get real physical headarche when looking at it.
Its saucer is just too small, considering how bulky and massive it's hull is.
It is really frustrating to have such a fine ship in this game, but i just can't use it. Not even if Cryptics would pay me for using it.


So i would like to ask for some very simple additions for the Avenger Battlecruiser. Ship parts from other ship could easily be added (with some minor modifications, of course).
I am thinking about the Steamrunner Saucer amongst other things. It is bulky enough to fit to the rest of the Avenger class and would easy blend to the general shape of it. Also some Interpid saucers would also fit (Cochrane and Bellerophon class).
Those ships Nacelles would also perfectly fit to the avenger class IMHO.

The parts are there and we have seen kitbashes even in Trek TV shows more than once. I think Cryptics devs should really spend that ship some additional ship parts.

-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-

The "TT and/or AtB less builds" - Thread
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,627
# 2
12-01-2013, 12:34 PM
This is what somebody over at StarDestroyer.net said about the Avenger in a "best-looking Starfleet ship" thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Anyone for Avenger-class?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman
No thanks. That abomination somehow manages to look just like a Starfleet ship and nothing like a Starfleet ship at the same time.
I have both versions and I love it with the upswept pylons. It looks exactly like what it's supposed to be: a cruiser built purely for combat. It's compact, it's beefy, and it's got fun little details like blast shielding over the viewports and nacelles (that's the source of the noise you hear whenever an Avenger exits or enters combat).

One theory on the folks who don't like it: they don't like that it's representative of a more militaristic Starfleet.* To this I say, Starfleet was always a military organization. Even if you prefer not to call yourself a military, if you are an organized group that operates under recognizably military procedures and you are the group whom your legal government legally turns to when armed force is required, you're a military. The difference is, Starfleet isn't just a military.

Alternate theory: It clearly draws inspiration from the JJverse USS Vengeance, which irritates the Abrams haters.


* I also note that these people don't seem to be complaining overmuch about the abundance of "escorts", a term which DS9: "The Search, Part I" openly admits is a euphemism for "warship".
Vadm. Kanril Eleya, U.S.S. Andraste, Strike Team Alpha

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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 249
# 3
12-01-2013, 01:01 PM
Avenger is IMO one of the ugliest ships in STO but none of your theories fits me

Starfleet never was purely explorational. As a matter of fact it was more often a navy than it was a diplomatic/scientific force.

Secondly - I simply can't see where it resembles the Vengeance which reminds more of the Excelsior class.

EDIT: It just hit me that it resembles Abrams' Constitution though:


image taken from this thread

Last edited by jjumetley; 12-01-2013 at 01:16 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,373
# 4
12-01-2013, 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starswordc View Post
...
I have both versions and I love it with the upswept pylons. It looks exactly like what it's supposed to be: a cruiser built purely for combat. It's compact, it's beefy, and it's got fun little details like blast shielding over the viewports and nacelles (that's the source of the noise you hear whenever an Avenger exits or enters combat).

One theory on the folks who don't like it: they don't like that it's representative of a more militaristic Starfleet.* To this I say, Starfleet was always a military organization. Even if you prefer not to call yourself a military, if you are an organized group that operates under recognizably military procedures and you are the group whom your legal government legally turns to when armed force is required, you're a military. The difference is, Starfleet isn't just a military.

Alternate theory: It clearly draws inspiration from the JJverse USS Vengeance, which irritates the Abrams haters.


* I also note that these people don't seem to be complaining overmuch about the abundance of "escorts", a term which DS9: "The Search, Part I" openly admits is a euphemism for "warship".
I realize that the Avenger is supposed to look sturdy and like a Beast, i accept all that.
I just find that its Saucer looks too small. A narrow Saucer makes that ship look unproportional and takes away ANY kind of balance whatsoever.
A wide (or even better a round) Saucer would work like a optical counterbalance and would make the ship look even more like a Hot rod (as it is supposed to be).

Just as a example, the original Excalibur that was planned for STO had a great saucer section which would fit perfectly on the Avenger Class. (just forget the rest of the ship for a minute)






btw. i am not a abrams hater, in fact i like the ships from the new movies, but Cryptics designers just can't create good looking Starfleet ships, because they don't care about optical balance and proportion.

-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-

The "TT and/or AtB less builds" - Thread

Last edited by yreodred; 12-02-2013 at 12:29 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,627
# 5
12-02-2013, 05:23 AM
^Wow. Somebody who can actually quantify something purely visual that bothers him about the Avenger. (Okay, I'll grant casual players may not have the required art vocabulary, but still.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjumetley
Secondly - I simply can't see where it resembles the Vengeance which reminds more of the Excelsior class.
It looks more like the Avenger from a distance, and from certain angles.


Vengeance in background. Also has some resemblance from head-on (see the warp fight and the crash scene).
Vadm. Kanril Eleya, U.S.S. Andraste, Strike Team Alpha

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Last edited by starswordc; 12-02-2013 at 05:25 AM. Reason: image link fix
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,373
# 6
12-02-2013, 05:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starswordc View Post
^Wow. Somebody who can actually quantify something purely visual that bothers him about the Avenger. (Okay, I'll grant casual players may not have the required art vocabulary, but still.)



It looks more like the Avenger from a distance, and from certain angles.


Vengeance in background. Also has some resemblance from head-on (see the warp fight and the crash scene).
I agree, but the cool thing about the Avenger is when looking at it from the front, it looks MASSIVE and dangerous, the avenger on the other hand looks like a tiny ugly bug (from more than just one angle, lol).

It seems to me that Cryptics designers just kept out what made the Vengeance look cool and powerful, but keept what it made rather look so so.

As i said, i am no longer completely against that design, but it just doesn't look completed, with just such a tiny and pointy saucer. I mean a seperated Galaxy Class looks better than this ship IMO.
I know i can talk about this 'till the cows come home, as long as no dev is listening, lol. I just hope someone at cryptic agrees and donates the poor Avenger an appropriate Saucer.

-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-

The "TT and/or AtB less builds" - Thread
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 145
# 7
12-02-2013, 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
I just hope someone at cryptic agrees and donates the poor Avenger an appropriate Saucer.
I completely agree. The rest of the ship looks bulky, muscular, and aggressive. The saucer ought to reflect that as well, IMO. While the saucer is aggressive in a way with its pointiness and the preponderance of forward-facing cannons, it's a very different flavor of aggression. There's a lot to like about the Avenger design, but I think it could be seriously improved with the addition of a new saucer option.

I understand what the designers were going for, but the saucer looks incongruously dainty compared with the relatively brutish secondary hull and nacelles. The end result is that the ship looks oddly like a rubber duck from the side. It's not well-balanced between the front and the back. The dorsal surface is sleek and refined in the vein of the Intrepid class, while the ventral surface is blocky and unfinished looking. I do like the glowing sensor dome homage to the TOS Constitution that they're doing on many 2409 designs, however.

Perhaps a broader, more muscular saucer section would look better? My preference would be for a nearly circular design, possibly with a blunted rear edge. The concept art posted earlier in this thread could serve as an excellent inspiration.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,373
# 8
12-02-2013, 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatinblueblazes View Post
I completely agree. The rest of the ship looks bulky, muscular, and aggressive. The saucer ought to reflect that as well, IMO. While the saucer is aggressive in a way with its pointiness and the preponderance of forward-facing cannons, it's a very different flavor of aggression. There's a lot to like about the Avenger design, but I think it could be seriously improved with the addition of a new saucer option.

I understand what the designers were going for, but the saucer looks incongruously dainty compared with the relatively brutish secondary hull and nacelles. The end result is that the ship looks oddly like a rubber duck from the side. It's not well-balanced between the front and the back. The dorsal surface is sleek and refined in the vein of the Intrepid class, while the ventral surface is blocky and unfinished looking. I do like the glowing sensor dome homage to the TOS Constitution that they're doing on many 2409 designs, however.

Perhaps a broader, more muscular saucer section would look better? My preference would be for a nearly circular design, possibly with a blunted rear edge. The concept art posted earlier in this thread could serve as an excellent inspiration.
THATS what i am talking about!


The avengers saucer just looks too pointy, which is a complete different kind of agressiveness compared to the muscular and blocky rest of the ship. It just looks out of place on that ship. A round (circular) and beefd up Saucer would look much better on it, establishing the needed balance between forward and rear section of the ship.

-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-

The "TT and/or AtB less builds" - Thread
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 145
# 9
12-03-2013, 03:23 PM
Well, fingers crossed. I personally enjoy the design quite a bit, and would love to see some more options implemented for it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 158
# 10
12-03-2013, 05:11 PM
Yes, an optional bigger saucer section would only help this ship. It's not like the Avenger doesn't look like a proper Fed ship. It does. It follows their traditional scheme - saucer+hull+two nacelles. What breaks this design is an awful lack of proportion between the parts.

Two additional saucer options, one more traditional Odyssey/Sovereign style and one more chevron-shaped, like Intrepid class, but bigger/longer, could be used to enchance its appearance.

Last edited by meedacthunist; 12-03-2013 at 05:14 PM.
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