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Join Date: Oct 2012
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# 1 Datalore's rights violated?
04-11-2014, 12:26 PM
I occurs to me that Datalore was said to be permanently deactivated and disassembled in a time frame that must have been only moments to an hour after his capture. Why? Lore has the same rights as Data should he not? It seems to me that the Federation would have been obligated to repair him, tried him for his crimes and then locked him in a cell to live out the rest of his existence. But dismantling him outright seems akin to an execution, something the Federation does not do.

Also, what about B4's rights as an individual? Sure he seemed dim witted, but he was a unique being in his own right. Overwriting everything he was to bring back Data seems to both cheapen B4's existence as an individual being as well as diminish the sense of mortality Data had in dying.
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Captain
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# 2
04-11-2014, 12:29 PM
Lore and B4 didn't count as sentient - Data did. hence him not being considered property of Starfleet (they tried to have him too, but a court ruled in Data's favour)

Doesn't justify it, but does explain it.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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# 3
04-11-2014, 12:37 PM
Lore wasn't disassembled - he was first beamed into deep space, then shot with a phaser. Both instances were in combat, in defense of the crew of the Enterprise; further, it should be remembered that he had first admitted to committing genocide upon the inhabitants of the colony world he'd been constructed on, by basically placing a collect call to Galactus.

I don't recall B4 being disassembled, either - I seem to recall something about Data's personality pattern overwriting his, but that's not exactly the same thing, is it? (Please, don't make me watch that horrible movie again just to verify a bit of trivia!!)
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# 4
04-11-2014, 12:41 PM
The STO novel, The Needs of the Many, delves into the ethics of overwriting B4's personality with Data's. Once restored, Data himself is pretty upset that it happened, and actually tried to "delete" himself and restore B4.
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# 5
04-11-2014, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonsills View Post
I don't recall B4 being disassembled, either - I seem to recall something about Data's personality pattern overwriting his, but that's not exactly the same thing, is it? (Please, don't make me watch that horrible movie again just to verify a bit of trivia!!)
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Survivor of Romulus
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# 6
04-11-2014, 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrjwrr View Post
Lore and B4 didn't count as sentient - Data did. hence him not being considered property of Starfleet (they tried to have him too, but a court ruled in Data's favour)

Doesn't justify it, but does explain it.
Why wouldn't they count as sentient? They're both androids like Data is. They have different personalities and different intelligence, but isn't that part of being an individual?
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# 7
04-11-2014, 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnikku View Post
Why wouldn't they count as sentient? They're both androids like Data is. They have different personalities and different intelligence, but isn't that part of being an individual?
Data was never considered sentient, legally. The JAG in 'Measure of a Man' only ruled that Data was not the property of Starfleet, not that he was sentient or 'had a soul'.

B4 was transformed by the memory engrams Data downloaded into B4 to teach B4 everything he knew. The side effect was that Data's personality ended up overriding B4's. Starfleet didn't do anything to devalue B4, as I recall.

As for Lore, others have already pointed out that Lore was extremely dangerous. Remember, the Enterprise crew had to deactivate Data many times because he was a threat. Deactivation is the equivalent of stasis, which starfleet does do to certain prisoners. I'm not just referencing ST:ID here, but in ENT, augment embryos were kept in stasis at the Cold Stations like Cold Station 12.
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# 8
04-11-2014, 01:55 PM
Lore was executed. Okay? Yeah he killed hundreds of people as was drunk on power in charge of a crystalline entity.
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# 9
04-11-2014, 02:14 PM
As we have seen, disassembling a Soong-type android, does not erase it's memory, experience or even it's personality.

The 3 Soong type androids had all been taken apart and put back together with no lasting repercussions.

Examples:
Lore: Taken apart and stored on his homeworld.

Data:
In "Disaster" riker unmounts his head.
He is deactivated on at least 4 different occations
Loses his head 500 years before he is build, and then has it reattached after said 500 years.

B4:
Well... he was found in pieces and still awake... For Q knows how long.

I'd say the closest what Data did, is to put him into a cryo-prison.
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# 10
04-11-2014, 02:34 PM
Yeah, an "execution" would require Starfleet permanently destroying Lore's body. The mere fact that he could be reassembled with no ill effect means that he's merely in the android version of "cold sleep."
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