Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 142
# 131
12-18-2013, 06:01 PM
I decided to hop on Tribble to see what was up with it myself, it looks like that the Allied Zone Daily is still there at least from what I saw, and worked, got the usual 50 marks and 960 dilithium. However nothing I did in the Contested Zone did amounted up to anything no matter what missions I did or ships I killed other than the 10 marks per mission and I did not see any way of getting the Contested Zone Daily so that seems to have been removed. Would prefer to either obviously have it back or if this absolutely must be a balancing thing, once the Voth Front zone is opened up to have the Daily be for any zone that you help out in? The Battlezone seemed unchanged from what I could tell in terms of the marks and dilithium and missions offered there. Hope this helps.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 710
# 132
12-18-2013, 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirboulevard View Post
Try the battle zone, its stabilized, mostly bug fixed and easy.



The point I'm trying to make is there is problem with people not playing the game in this game. STO is nowhere near as grindy as other games and people here seem to only want to play for 5 minutes and then just talk to people. The point I'm making is, they make content, they want people to play it. Instead everyone just complains there's not a faster way and doesn't play any part of the game that can't be done in no time and just loiters around instead.
I agree with this statement... instant gratification and mmo don't go together. I amazed at how many folks don't even want to play the new stuff and still the sphere is packed with people. Just like every other easy dilithium grind in this game you knew a nerf was inbound it was just a matter of time. I think the marks could use adjusting on all the space stuff. I miss when content was important to people and not "click this click that I'm done."

The nice thing is since this S8 went live I've done more reputation than I have ever done and I've been happy about everything they have done with the game... great work!
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,595
# 133
12-18-2013, 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirboulevard View Post
STO is nowhere near as grindy as other games and people here seem to only want to play for 5 minutes and then just talk to people.
Either you never played another game or you are talking off your ...

STO is grindy ... the entire reputation system is nothing but a grind designed to keep players to grind for 4 months until they unleash their next grind, the Fleet system is grindan so you can spend things you grinded.

Its not as grindan as TOR? sure if you are F2P but thing is Cryptic wants their cake and eat it too ... in one hand they want monetization so we have Dilithium sinks and on the other hand they want "subscriber retention" so we have Mark grind. F2Players cannot just "pay" to escape the grind because "retention" and Subscribers cannot just escape the grind because "monetization" ... one or the other, if both at least separate the both by giving subscribers something beyond the 500 Zen thats right now about 67k Dilithium per month because right now you are just giving PWE $10 per month for the Veteran Rewards and how long that does that takes 1000 days thats almost 3 years, its also $340 at the end you paying.

Oh grindan does not mean RNG my friend, no ... we had STFs and loot being RNG, even now RNG plays a part on the game, Mk XII purple is still RNG ... some stuff inst due to Rep thats what I said, "retention" and "monetization".


Quote:
The point I'm making is, they make content, they want people to play it.
Really? then why they make such poor rewards?

Story content should pay Dilithium to remain competitive because some missions go over 30 minutes yet they are playing 2nd fiddle to pretty much else ... in fact its better to just do some story missions if you want some unique (but inferior) gear at lv 50 and just level using other means that are faster.

In fact they were damn fast in taking a Universal console that was pretty good and stuff it on the Reputation system ... they make content yet they removed a reward that now costs 500 Omega Marks.

Quote:
Instead everyone just complains there's not a faster way and doesn't play any part of the game that can't be done in no time and just loiters around instead.
The thing is we arent loitering, when I am not in a grindan rabbithole I am DOFFing, I intended to make a new character and in fact I brought a unlock for that character and I have not ... why? Because I am too busy finishing up my DOFF chains and with the Winter Event to actually DO that, I also had to farm the crap out of Dyson Sphere to open up time to rotate characters after I am done with the current ones.

So there is no grind ... yet since Season 7 thats about the only thing I been doing, grinding Fleet Marks so I can buy Fleet Gear (that costs both Dilkithium and Fleet Credits), Grinding Reputation so I can unlock the Stores so I can spend Dilithium on the stuff there (only with Omega since everything else is by design, 2nd class gear ... and weapons but Fleet's usually better anyway) and then Grind events because one can in fact have too many characters.

Here is the thing .. STO gets boring after Lv 50 true but Cryptic have not made much content ... they make grind sinks for the last 2 years, one after the other after the other .... sure we got Romulans but really, I am seeing KDF Mk II, a faction that gets content to level up to a point and then is funnel into the same missions we all have been playing ... a 4th faction so we get a KDF Mk III?

Are we getting actual new content instead of "here is a grind map for you to grind, see you in 4 months"? the last Featured Series ended up being a Featured Episode ... they are supposed to return next year and I hope so because what we have is "dailies" that give marks for a rep or fleet system, not much on "here a unique reward for doing this" ... that was 2 years ago with the Dominion series, we had events after that.
Romulans ...
You start your career off as a simple farmer... then you launch yourself into a galaxy filled with intrigue, power plays, and high stakes games of interstellar conflict, as your career careens upwards onto your final destination ... a level capped Dilithium and Fleet Mark Farmer!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 566
# 134
12-18-2013, 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
Either you never played another game or you are talking off your ...

STO is grindy ... the entire reputation system is nothing but a grind designed to keep players to grind for 4 months until they unleash their next grind, the Fleet system is grindan so you can spend things you grinded.

Its not as grindan as TOR? sure if you are F2P but thing is Cryptic wants their cake and eat it too ... in one hand they want monetization so we have Dilithium sinks and on the other hand they want "subscriber retention" so we have Mark grind. F2Players cannot just "pay" to escape the grind because "retention" and Subscribers cannot just escape the grind because "monetization" ... one or the other, if both at least separate the both by giving subscribers something beyond the 500 Zen thats right now about 67k Dilithium per month because right now you are just giving PWE $10 per month for the Veteran Rewards and how long that does that takes 1000 days thats almost 3 years, its also $340 at the end you paying.

Oh grindan does not mean RNG my friend, no ... we had STFs and loot being RNG, even now RNG plays a part on the game, Mk XII purple is still RNG ... some stuff inst due to Rep thats what I said, "retention" and "monetization".
Go play WoW. Single largest MMO in the world. Go play some of those raids and see if the drop you got after teaming up with 20+ players was worth an hour of your time. And people are completely ok doing that because the Reward is secondary.

And besides that MMOs are grindy. RPGs ARE GRINDY. I made the point on the last page that I had to grind in Skyrim to craft better armor for myself. I had to grind to level up in Fallout so that my speech skill was high enough to get the best ending. Go look up what the old EV training was for competitive battling was like for Pokemon before the newest game came out. That was a grind that could take hundred of man hours for ONE CREATURE. And these are primarily SINGLE PLAYER games. You have to work for rewards, sorry if you don't like that. The best content in MMOs will always be behind some kind of gate, whether its RNG or Reputation. At least reputation gives you an equal chance.

I'm an LTS-er, got it on a Sale for $200, also had a free month during subscription era from buying a collector's edition. In the long run, I've actually made more money from that purchase via the Zen unlocks I have.

As far as monetization goes, what do you expect to pay the developers with? Rocks? And don't tell me that's naive. This game gives you the option to grind out Dil and purchase anything in the in-game store with out buying it yourself. The Lockboxes? Ok, I'm not big on them myself but lots of people have bought them and choose to throw their money at the devs that way. Different strokes. I think its a rip off but others don't. At the end of the day the game has overhead.

Mark Grind? Really? Yes, they want subscriber retention, otherwise the game, ya know, goes away. The other part of it was the RNG God wasn't very fair in this game. Remember why Rep was put in the first place? I had a friend who ran over 2,000 STFs and never once got a Mk XII Drop. Not once. I, myself, ran over 350 CSEs for a MkXII Engine. There was a lot of angry people over that. Some of the best players in the game didn't get the best gear on their best toons while a newbie had a full set. The rep system was about empowering players and giving us the all have the chance to obtain the same gear equally.


Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
Really? then why they make such poor rewards?

Story content should pay Dilithium to remain competitive because some missions go over 30 minutes yet they are playing 2nd fiddle to pretty much else ... in fact its better to just do some story missions if you want some unique (but inferior) gear at lv 50 and just level using other means that are faster.

In fact they were damn fast in taking a Universal console that was pretty good and stuff it on the Reputation system ... they make content yet they removed a reward that now costs 500 Omega Marks.
And yet people play the story content simply because they like it. Guess what? It is its own reward. The Story is. The more you try to turn the game into EPIC L33T LOOT FOR EVERYTHING, then you devalue why you play that content. I enjoyed every single story mission simply because it was a story mission.

I will agree the Assimilated Console should not have been removed from that mission. Then again, I also think that because that mission is a nightmare for a single player.


Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
The thing is we arent loitering, when I am not in a grindan rabbithole I am DOFFing, I intended to make a new character and in fact I brought a unlock for that character and I have not ... why? Because I am too busy finishing up my DOFF chains and with the Winter Event to actually DO that, I also had to farm the crap out of Dyson Sphere to open up time to rotate characters after I am done with the current ones.

So there is no grind ... yet since Season 7 thats about the only thing I been doing, grinding Fleet Marks so I can buy Fleet Gear (that costs both Dilkithium and Fleet Credits), Grinding Reputation so I can unlock the Stores so I can spend Dilithium on the stuff there (only with Omega since everything else is by design, 2nd class gear ... and weapons but Fleet's usually better anyway) and then Grind events because one can in fact have too many characters.

Here is the thing .. STO gets boring after Lv 50 true but Cryptic have not made much content ... they make grind sinks for the last 2 years, one after the other after the other .... sure we got Romulans but really, I am seeing KDF Mk II, a faction that gets content to level up to a point and then is funnel into the same missions we all have been playing ... a 4th faction so we get a KDF Mk III?

Are we getting actual new content instead of "here is a grind map for you to grind, see you in 4 months"? the last Featured Series ended up being a Featured Episode ... they are supposed to return next year and I hope so because what we have is "dailies" that give marks for a rep or fleet system, not much on "here a unique reward for doing this" ... that was 2 years ago with the Dominion series, we had events after that.
First off, you may not be doing that. But I see alot of people just loitering around ESD, DS9 and First City not doing anything.

Hmm, so you're trying to do a bunch of different things and then you feel like you're over grinding. Maybe its because youre CHOOSING to overgrind. I never do Fleet and Rep grind in the same day simply because it gets stressful. Split it up. Take a break. Do something besides it for your own sake. Otherwise, yes you are just grinding. But you don't have to. You entire post reeks of "I want my super elite stuff on all my toons." Stop valuing the rewards over the content. That's called greed and instant gratification.

And if you're bored with the game? Maybe you should go take a break. Seriously. Go take a few days off and play another game or read a book, do something else. If you're bored, why are choosing to be bored?

And the KDF are getting some love. Or I guess all those new missions that came out with LoR and got upgraded this last month with voice overs are just nothing. KDF may be second fiddle, but they have come significantly from being that PVP only faction no one played back in the day. And with that new promotion they've run recently, I'm seeing more people around Qo'Nos and the First City now.

But at the end of the day, every faction is going to have shared content because one faction is the major reason why people play this game: because most people want to be Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway or Archer. So yes, there will be crossover. But right now, unique Federation story content is very subpar compared to the Klingons and Romulans. The shared content actually makes them less unique and takes away from their storyline.

And as far as unique rewards go, theres only so much of that you can do before they stop being unique. Sphere of Influence just gave away a free ship. The Aniversary event will give away another free ship. Those are still unique rewards even if they can be obtained later because hey, later you gotta pay.

While I would like new story content, I'm more interested in the story content itself over its rewards. Rewards are for raid-like content in MMOs. Story content is a reward in of itself.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 65
# 135
12-18-2013, 10:45 PM
R.I.P. Solanae Dyson Sphere Space
they dont care about our feedback they just did it it will be live today

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,119
# 136
12-18-2013, 10:47 PM
I only did it for the commendation anyways and its easier to do one area mission anyways soo I'm fine with the change.
The Emperor

Do not presume to have the capability to understand me for you see, I simply am.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 65
# 137
12-18-2013, 11:02 PM
ye the funny thing is that it will take 2 mins instead of 5 thats the good part thanks god that im tr5 lol but w8 for the next week they will kill the ground too

Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,747
# 138
12-19-2013, 03:41 AM
Not really that impressed with the change. it will probably be quicker now for me to get the commendation, but if they have taken away the 960 dilithium and the 50 dyson marks then that kind of sucks for the sake of a couple of minutes of work. was it just too rewarding for the effort put in?

why would people do the smaller missions that much anymore, if they no longer contribute. im scratching my head as to why this needed to be quicker and less rewarding. it was just a daily after all. seems an error if you ask me.

House of Cards - Lvl 46 Fed mission
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,118
# 139
12-19-2013, 07:55 AM
@sirboulevard

I understand what you're saying but I don't understand your logic.

This will effectively kill the Dyson space zone completely. You talk about we can't get something for nothing, but the inverse is also true. This is turning the whole zone into nothing for nothing.

Mercifully, and brilliantly, the commendations are incredibly easy to acquire. This means that just by playing anything in the Dyson's Sphere you can maintain meaningful progress through the Dyson Reputation.

But without dilithium and Dyson Mark reward of the daily, doing anything in the space zone will essentially be spending our time there for free. BECAUSE we can go run the Fleet Actions, because we can do the Battlezone, which for people that don't like ground isn't that friendly a proposition, because the commendation is the simple thing to get, removing the other rewards for the space daily will cause people to spend even less time there. It's not about being lazy or doing the easiest possible thing. It's about efficient grinding.

An RPG does have grind elements but it also has a definitive end. MMOs don't. So the grind needs to be more painless because it will be done much more repetitively.

The solution isn't to remove the rewards but to tweak the mission completion requirements so that they actually rate the reward.

We don't want something that is as monotonous as Tau Dewa, but if they've decided that the previous model was too simple, then make it tougher. As I suggested earlier make it so you have to do all, or two out of three of the area missions to get the daily completion. (Mind you they have to fix a few missions, like the find the missing ship mission that doesn't have a ship or anyone to defend it from).

I still run the Eta Eridani missions and the Deferi missions daily. Why? Because it's part of my dilithium grind. I need it for my fleet. I need for my equipment. I need to live!!!

And I'm running the Winter Event on four characters.

There has to be a better balance than taking away a source of dilithium and Dyson Marks.

Also a suggestion, what if running the allied space daily gave a different reward. Say fleet marks or a fleet commendation towards the Fleet Spire?

Cryptic you listened to us about the new rep system in the build up to Season 8 and put in lots of great quality of life features, like the marks to commendation project. Please listen to us here too.

Removing the daily is overkill. Just tweak it to bring it into the standards you need.
Yes I support This

"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"

Last edited by captaind3; 12-19-2013 at 07:58 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 33
# 140
12-19-2013, 09:12 AM
Joining in here to say that I'm really disappointed with the removal of the Daily.

Commendations weren't a problem, I like the way Cryptic handled it. Some of us with many alts could still earn decent rewards for them by doing that Daily. But by removing it, you're trying to funnel us to the Battlezone and queues, right?

Removing the additional rewards just so I can get the Commendations more quickly is just going to push me to go get the dilithium I need for projects elsewhere. Back to ISE, I guess? Was there too much dilithium in the economy or something? I felt like I was starting to actually make headway in outfitting characters and contributing to Fleet dilithium black holes.

You guys provided a viable alternate path to resource collection with the Adventure Zone. Removing a third of the options to get Marks and dilithium there is quite disappointing.
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